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32 bit comp produces artifacts

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Anthony Dupsta
32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 5:17:20 am

Working in float (32 bit).All 32 bit effects.

Shot needed to have some paint work done. Just clone stamped a couple hundred frames.

The paint is being track and than motion blur is being applied to the patches. However in 32 bit float all my paint work has black artifacts littering the shot. Looks like there is tearing going on and artifacting where ever I have painted.

Rendering in 16 bit produces clean renders but I can't just clamp this shot?

Anyone have this happen or know a work around? I am doing frame by frame paint work around 400 strokes. First time I have had this artifacting happen? It is coming from the comp motion blur. Shoudl I just hand blur it? Maybe some advice or work arounds from anyone comping in float.


Thanks


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Chris Wright
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 6:30:41 am

prerender elements, or don't use 16bit effects, or use utility hdr compander.
http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/8.0/help.html?content=WSA666F8...

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Anthony Dupsta
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 8:00:54 am

1) Unfortunately if a render has artifacts than a pre render will have artifacts. MB is tearing the render. So a pre render is not going to work if rendering in general does not work. This is a simple comp, no plug ins, just paint work. No heavy precomps, just few layers, few freeze frames tracked and than motion blured. It is producing tears or artifacts, like dead pixels.

2) No 16 bit or 8 bit effects are being used only 32 bit effects.

3)I too thought hrd compander was the ticket however since this is Motion blur tearing up and creating artifacts, no luck.

I guess I will have to take off the Motion Blur and just hand blur this thing.

If anyone who uses float on a weekly basis has run into this issue please let me know if you too have experience this.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 1:06:01 pm

[Anthony Dupsta] "I guess I will have to take off the Motion Blur and just hand blur this thing."

Not a direct solution to your problem, but ReelSmart Motion Blur might save you quite a bit of work.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Anthony Dupsta
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 5:22:34 pm

Real smart is pixel based right? The paint patches I have are tracking with the live action plate. When these paint patches translate AE should create motion blur. However in 32bit I get what looks like dead pixels and artifacts. When I turn off the motion blur in 32bit No artifacts.
Real smart is pixel based and I am not sure will create motion blur from my translating paint patches. I could apply the Real smart globally however that might compound the existing motion blur from the live action plate. I might try using a FG matte with Real Smart and isolate just where I want Real smart to look?
OK I will see what I come up with.
But more important, AE is tearing and breaking in 32bit when motion blur is applied to paint strokes being tracked onto a plate.

Thanks for the suggestion.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 5:27:35 pm

[Anthony Dupsta] "Real smart is pixel based and I am not sure will create motion blur from my translating paint patches. I could apply the Real smart globally however that might compound the existing motion blur from the live action plate. I might try using a FG matte with Real Smart and isolate just where I want Real smart to look?"

Yes, RSMB is pixel-based -- but if your plate and patches are on separate layers, it can track motion from your plate and apply the blur to the patches.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Wright
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 5:21:56 pm

does it tear in AE or just when you render? try a Tiff sequence bit depth trillions. maybe a 8 bit rendering out is your problem.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Anthony Dupsta
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 5:28:29 pm

"does it tear in AE or just when you render"
Both. I can see the artifacts in the render and when I preview everything in full.

No Tiffs. rendering in 8 bit is completely out of the question. I could try to sneak a 16bit render through the pipeline but I see where it is clamping my highs. So I will try other motion blur techniques before getting desperate with 16bit.


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Chris Wright
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13:52 pm

where's Tod, that seems like a bug to me...

also, you can drop in levels-individual controls on the comp, then set clipping 32bpc to on, that way it leaves the other comps still zipping along in 32bpc.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Anthony Dupsta
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 7:23:30 pm

So as I have to deliver today, sometimes crude gets it done. However this is not a fix but this worked:
I would find the frame that has artifacts on it.
I was do a "save frame as" re render just that frame. Sometimes the artifact would be else where and sometimes I would get a clean frame to render. So I went through and re rendered each bad frame sometimes once, and sometimes three times. I finally got a clean sequence.
However if I need to make a change and re render the entire sequence I am hosed as I can not baby sit each frame being rendered.
This is no a fix just some silly work around that got it out the door.
I had to do this because when I turned off the motion blur some frames still had the tearing, so I can isolate this to paint strokes and float. They are not playing nice.


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Anthony Dupsta
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 7:28:53 pm

"levels-individual controls on the comp, then set clipping 32bpc to on"

Hey Chris,
On a side note: About clamping certain layers.
It is always nice to hear of a diff strategy in how to clamp.
I am curious if this is the same as just using a compress and expand expression? Both are only clamping a specified node and not compromising the entire comp.
I suppose I could do it either way? Or is there a difference I should be aware of?


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Chris Wright
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 8:00:26 pm

compander enables 8 bit effects to work in 32bpc by compressing the median values, but that won't work in your case. Levels with clipping on 32bpc literally deletes above and below values so there's no wrap around of color, which works for me a lot when I have colors I want to clamp for special blending. BTW, did it help your problem?

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Anthony Dupsta
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 9:44:43 pm

Yes, this method did work. I had tried the compander before so I was not sure this would do it. But you seem to have this figured out. Those pixels where so clipped they were just being deleted huh? The paint strokes where being applied in a small area maybe not allowing any room to wrap? Either way you fixed it. Weird that we had to clamp the paint comps, I am OK with clamping those paint comps. I guess it gets tricky with the paint tool, and float? However this helped me. Thank you.
So all I did was apply the Ind Levels and clip the black and white(on). Can I use normal levels also, as it has the clip pull down menu as well?
So all you had me do is clamp the values in the paint patches that wheres tearing? Is that right? Just so I understand the principle of this and not just blinding apply clamps.
Thank you again.


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Chris Wright
Re: 32 bit comp produces artifacts
on Oct 5, 2010 at 10:00:23 pm

The pixels were wrapping around and mixing back into the visible pixels again. Ususally this works without incident, but some plugins aren't programmed to handle true 32bpc, and apparently, paint is one of them.

Normal levels should work with clipping, but I only use the individual controls so cannot guarantee correct programming 100%. You only have to clamp the paint comps and you apply the clipping after, not before. Apply it to all the paint comps so you don't have to wait to render to find out where the errors are.

Since it's working for you, just keep doing the same thing. I'm glad to hear my trick worked.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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