ADOBE AFTER EFFECTS: Forum Expressions Tutorials Creative Cloud

2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions

COW Forums : Adobe After Effects

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Dale Hildebrand2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 11, 2010 at 10:47:07 pm

Hi there,

I have a Red project shot at 4k and mastered to a 23.976 Prores 2048 x 1024. I need to output this 2k project to SD 29.97 720x480. I would like to letterbox the 2048x1024 (2:1 ratio) within the 720x480.

My question is: What is the best way to down-convert and add 3:2 pulldown? Can one get better results by outputting directly through a Kona card to Dbeta? If so, can the Kona handle 2048x1024 or do I need to downconver to 1080 23.976 letteboxed first. If Kona can handle, can it also letterbox the 2:1 ratio within the 720x480?

Would FCP or cinetools be a good choice to add 3:2 pulldown and downres to 720x480?

Alternatively, could better results come out of After Effects instead of Kona or FCP/Cinetools. If so, what are the best settings regarding time sampling - for field render do I choose upper field or lower field first? For pulldown would wssww be a good choice? I assume converting to 29.97 without interlaced is not a good idea (cadence may be jittery for certain moves)?

Appreciate any wisdom on this.

Cheers,
Dale



Return to posts index

Dale HildebrandRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 11, 2010 at 10:54:06 pm

Oh, sorry, I do realize I need to select upper field.



Return to posts index

Chris WrightRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 11, 2010 at 11:37:29 pm

I hope you mastered your red to prores 444 and not prores 422 or you just deleted a bunch of chroma.

Why would you output your footage to digibeta which is 720x486 not 480 which is dvd output only.

I would definately compare different resizing methods such as AE's, virtualdub's bicubic, topaz ,and red giant's resizer. You can either fit to comp width or fit to comp height depending on if you want black bars(enhanced mode) or letterbox(crop mode)


SD would be rendered out lower field because it's NTSC. I'd recommend http://wwwss for 3:2 pulldown which is the standard for dvd mastering. Also, hopefully you know about interpreting the red stuff as hdtv(if that's what you set it up as in red originally conformed) and 32 linear light off. Then master out the output module with color management sdtv so that the color also gets conformed.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


Return to posts index


Dale HildebrandRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 12:00:17 am

Yes, sorry, was about to admit my mistake - upper for HD and Lower for SD.

The reason to go Dbeta it that it is the delivery requirement for the broadcaster.

Yes I rendered out at 444. With that in mind, how have you found the differences between ProRes 422 with 444 chroma checked vs Prores 4444? I've had some gamma issues with 4444.

So for Dbeta I should set the frame size @ 720x486? What I'm creating is basically to be set in a FCP timeline, played back from there directly to Dbeta capture. In the past 720x480 is all I ever had for playback to Dbeta.

Yes, in regards to the linear light. 4k Raw was processed through AE. There was a lot of experimentation, but it looks fantastic in the end.

Thank you for the pulldown recommendation.



Return to posts index

Chris WrightRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 12:06:39 am

search the cow here for the 444 and 422 gamma issues which can be fixed. Dbeta is a different comp size than DVD output, so chose 486 if you're directly outputting to Dbeta or you'll lop off the bottom pixels which is NOT cool.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


Return to posts index

Dale HildebrandRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 1:03:25 am

Thank you for this. One more question - would you say the AE conversion is better quality then going out of a Kona @ 2k converting 23.976 to 29.97 SD directly when going to Dbeta?



Return to posts index


Chris WrightRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 5:58:19 am

AE with or without plugins? Anything is better than no plugins(even including Kona) What's the best? Terranex!

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


Return to posts index

Kevin CampRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 3:47:01 pm

i would think that the kona card would do a good downconvert without needing to do anything but set the fcp to use a 525i29.97 setting to edit to tape/print video.

you might have to set the output of one of the ports on the aja card to sd in the aja control panel, then connect that port to the deck.

you could probably ask a few questions in the aja and fcp forums for any pitfalls with your specific card/setup, but i'm pretty sure that you'll get good results.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


Return to posts index

Dale HildebrandRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 3:58:48 pm

Thank you, I will check into that.

The confusion I'm having with Kona and 2:1 (2048x1024) is that I read conflicting reports. Kona 3's specs say "Letterbox: image is reduced with black top and bottom added to image area with the aspect ratio preserved", yet others say you need to put 2048x1024 on a 1080 timeline. So the question is, does Kona only letterbox and 1080 frame or can it letterbox 2048x1024 into a SD 4:3 frame?



Return to posts index


Kevin CampRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 6:00:46 pm

[Dale Hildebrand] "So the question is, does Kona only letterbox and 1080 frame or can it letterbox 2048x1024 into a SD 4:3 frame?"

i'd ask that specific question in the aja kona forum...

my under standing on how the kona would work, is that if fcp's timeline is set to 2k, but one of the outputs is set to sd, then the card will downconvert it for that output (the fcp setting for use different preset for edit to tape may actually override that aja setting, so that control panel setting may be unnecessary).

but it is quite possible that even though the knoa3 works with 2k, the hardware may only handle the downconvert from hd to sd... if so, then putting the 2k in an hd timeline, then edit to tape using an sd setting may be the only way to do it.

you might even shoot aja support an email about a recommended 2k to sd workflow with fcp. when i've dealt with aja, they've been quite helpful. there is usually about a one day turnaround on your question/answer...

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


Return to posts index

Dale HildebrandRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 12, 2010 at 8:14:49 pm

Thank you Kevin, I will look into it.



Return to posts index

Kevin CampRe: 2k 23.976 to SD 29.97 output / conversion suggestions
by on Sep 13, 2010 at 5:30:25 pm

I have a correction on the fcp settings:

don't check the box for 'use different settings for edit to tape' in the fcp a/v settings.

you should let the aja card handle the downconvert settings in the aja control panel...

so you'd set the secondary format to 525i29.97 with the 'letterbox' option, then choose the secondary format for the output that the sd deck is connected to.

but i still can't answer the question about whether or not the kona3 will downconvert 2k to sd.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]