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Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p

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sean henveyYoutube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 9:53:41 am

Dear Pro User (Please help ME!)

Hi, my name is sean.

i have a problem. After 1000x attempts (yes 1000+) i thought i might ask someone for some help.

i have tried all manner of workflows and encoding software.

i believe i have isolated the problem but understanding why is just as important. i need solutions, please only help me if
you have a sturdy idea about what is going on. Also i have tried yt forum, forget it!

Begin:

The Video is 2 parts (3 actually but) -

i have an intro/outro at 30 fps from 3ds max (png sequence - no alpha) 1280x720 16:9 Square Pixels.

i have a main at 60 fps from fraps of unreal tournament 1024x768 4:3 Square Pixels.

i bring footage into aecs3 and merge the two compositions into the hd 1280x720 29.97 preset (new composition), i scale the main footage.

i render an uncompressed avi (i have tried quicktime animation, i have tried unifying the footage as a png sequence - though i may try this again as my first attempts didnt go very well at the encoding to yt stage, it didn't suit the encoder i was using at the time and i want to limit the amount of times i encode re-encode).

i use megui 3.4 to encode for yt (it is the best - trust me it is) i have been using h264 with decent settings (may try a different container) but how do i know?

Because when i render each comp seperately they look great on yt at all resolutions. when i render the comp (with both footage together and a transition between the two) the artfacts are terrible at 420p and are still there at 720p.

I have tried ALL the color management presets too.

The intro is black btw with orange 3d text. the main footage is very colorful and is the gameplay.

The original avi looks crystal as you would expect.

As soon as yt gets it = fail.

The Problem:

The intro and the main together vs yt encoder?!

I need to unify this footage correctly, i have obviously tried this with avi.

my system is vista 64x, nvidia gt 220 1 gb, quad core. my monitor is an oldish samsung syncmaster 710mp. i cannot update my graphics card drivers because it makes the pc unstable - another microsoft nvidia duopoly customer service enhancement :(

Anyway, hey i need the A-Team on this one. PLS HELP ME IF YOU HAVE A GOOD IDEA!

Sean


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Walter SoykaRe: Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 2:06:38 pm

All those words, and I'm afraid I still don't actually understand your problem...

If the renders are coming out clean from After Effects, this question probably belongs in the Compression techniques forum.

If the renders are not coming out clean from After Effects, can you describe a bit more about what artifacts you're seeing (a video or screen shot might help), what format and codec your source footage is, and how you are handling the three different frame rates you have in your project.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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sean henveyRe: Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 2:16:46 pm

Walter did you not read brother...

You have pissed me off to be honest.

"i render an uncompressed avi (i have tried quicktime animation)"..?!

Its clean, crystal clean!!!

i also asked that people respond only if they understand.

Christ!


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Walter SoykaRe: Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 3:05:32 pm

Wow. I'm trying to help you. This forum is full of motion graphics and effects professionals with a tremendous amount of collective expertise. I don't think a response like that will encourage many of the posters here to drop their work and help you out.

That said, I did read your post, but it wasn't very clear:

[sean henvey] "i render an uncompressed avi (i have tried quicktime animation, i have tried unifying the footage as a png sequence - though i may try this again as my first attempts didnt go very well at the encoding to yt stage, it didn't suit the encoder i was using at the time and i want to limit the amount of times i encode re-encode)."

And several paragraphs down:

[sean henvey] "The intro is black btw with orange 3d text. the main footage is very colorful and is the gameplay. The original avi looks crystal as you would expect. "

I couldn't figure out whether "the original avi looks crystal" refers to your original footage, or your rendered comp from AE.

In order to help you, we need to clearly understand what point in the process you're first noticing the artifacting, and what the artifacting actually looks like.

So I stand by my previous post. If your output from AE looks great, then this is a compression questioned better suited for another forum. If not, I asked you some very specific questions about your AE workflow which you have not addressed that could be causing problems.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dave LaRondeRe: Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 3:06:39 pm

Okay then, pal, if you only want responses from people who understand, I'm not going to respond, either.

Why? Your description of the problem is about as clear as mud, and you apparently won't tolerate a trained professional's suggestions to help us diagnose the problem.

So as far as I'm concerned, go solve it yourself.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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James HiltonRe: Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 3:18:50 pm

Why use megui h264? Just use After Effects to export to 50 or 100mbit mpeg2 and upload that.

With all the advanced options, megui all too often creates streams that not all converters are able to read correctly.


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Gary HazenRe: Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 5:31:56 pm

YT.
Don't you see?
In order to unify
you have to multiply.
Crunch that raster
it should go faster.
It's the compress
that's causing the distress.
1000 attempts?
Sounds like fun.
Try it again for 1001.
Samsung Syncmaster
what a disaster.
The video is 2 parts or maybe 3.
I don't understand, but that's just me.

HTH


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Padraic CulhamRe: Youtube - Destroying Video: Many Artifacts at 480p
by on Sep 3, 2010 at 6:27:47 pm

I'll take a shot at this one. Having read the original post through a few times, I think I understand the question.

When rendered out and encoded, the individual pieces (2, maybe 3) look fine on yt (assuming youtube). When combining the pieces (from various frame rates and image sizes) into a single movie, the lossless/near lossless render looks fine ("...original avi looks crystal as you would expect"), But when that single movie is encoded/uploaded to youtube, compression artifacts are rampant.

The why is likely quite simple - your combined video is longer than the individual pieces. Thus, when encoding into h.264 or any other temporal-based codec, the quality of the full movie will be affected. And when the movie goes through the additional encoding step on youtube, that will hurt the quality even more.

Thus, Walter's answer was most likely the best one - take this question to the compression forum.

And when you do, approaching the forum with a bit more respect and humility will only help your cause. Most of the people here understand the frustration that comes from trying to solve these sorts of problems (though likely NOT to the extent of "1000x attempts"). That being said, most of the people here also maintain a sense of decorum and courtesy. Approaching a generally non-troll forum like this one with an inflated sense of entitlement ("Please help ME!") and uncalled-for anger when your question isn't easily understood is frankly a bit baffling.

I did like the poem that came out of this thread, though. (Perhaps a 'like' button should be instituted?)

And Dave - I didn't take any time away from work to write this. I was rendering, so I had a few minutes to kill.

Mac Pro 2x2.8 QuadCore; 6GB RAM; FCStudio2; Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium


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