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Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT

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Sascha Engel
Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 5:32:24 am

Hallo everybody,

I do have following situation: A NTSC DVD. I want to convert the VOB file first to a QT file and then De-Interlace and convert it to PAL 25 fps.

Here are my questions connected to that mission:

1. When converting the VOB file, is the original DVD file Upper or Lower field first? Also important to know the field order when De-interlacing.

2. What is the best way to convert to PAL? I thought of creating a NTSC Project in After Effects and render it out as PAL. If I do so, what are the best settings and the things to watch out for?


Thanx a lot. Helps appreciated vey much!

Sascha


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Chris Wright
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 7:31:40 am
Last Edited By Chris Wright on Jan 25, 2015 at 9:47:15 pm

1. if your version of AE doesn't natively support vob, then you'll first need to recode to uncompressed quicktime png avi (its 8bit only) or tiff 16 bit using another program( a free one is virtualdub mpeg2.

2. ignore the alpha channel, manually set the correct aspect ratio to 1.85:1 or 1.78(16:9)and vob's are usually upper field with http://wwwss 3:2 reverse pulldown to become an effective framefrate of 23.976 that you can place in a 25 fps to render pal upper field. It's about a 4% speed increase in video and audio which is what a lot of companies do. If you simply re-enterpret the file to 25fps, you'll get horrible audio sync issues which is NOT cool.


So basically you want to go the timestretch route 23.976 to 25 fps.

1. leave interpret footage alone
2. set same fps for comp as actual footage fps (maintain non-interpolation)
3. timestretch that layer so that both audio and video get stretched simultaneously. Now in this way, the pitch does go up a microscopic bit, so you can use protools or another program to increase speed but NOT pitch if you want. No one can usually tell.

pal to ntsc 95.904095904%
btw a future note (NTSC to pal 104.2709376%)

4. place it as a precomp in new desired fps comp

Also you can use timewarp/twixtor to change framerate without changing speed, but it's way more complicated.
as an example, I made a PAL to NTSC, so just reverse the color management and framerates 25 and 29.97 in the project. You'll also have to manually keyframe timewarp/twixtor down to 0 or splice new layers at hard cuts or you get gloopyness.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0UZM6MBH

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Sascha Engel
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 3:25:01 pm

It actually is 29,97 fps, not 23.97, right?


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Sascha Engel
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 5, 2010 at 6:49:55 am

HI Chris,

I wanted to do it Dave's way, cause it seemed more easy - just drop pit in compressor, but in highest settings it takes literally ages.
If I do it in AE, it is actually 29,97 frames to PAL 25, not from 23,97.
What is the percentage factor then?
And where do you exact do the time stretch then?


Greetings,

Sascha


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Chris Wright
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 5, 2010 at 10:17:55 pm

all dvd's have interlaced footage, and most have 3:2 pulldown. If you step through it frame by frame, you'll probably see duplicate frames. After the reverse pulldown, your effective framerate is what the original video looks like. Now if your footage is simply 29.97i, then you'll have
29.97 to 25
119.88%
drag footage into new comp icon, right click timestretch 119.88
now when you place it as a precomp in new 25 fps comp, it won't be laggy but it will be slower.


Also, for your optical flow software speed problem, Timewarp can go a lot faster, and twixtor is 10x faster with the new upgrade and you won't have speed or audio pitch problems. Just something to think about for the future.

and I'm curious, did the compressor make artifacts or jerkyness? I've never used it before...

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Sascha Engel
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 5, 2010 at 10:50:08 pm

Hi Chris,

Would like to specify the question and my case - I have 70min NTSC footage, which I have to edit a 3,5min PAL music video. I thought to first edit it as NTSC Footage in FCP, and then just convert the final 3,5min to save time and not to convert all the 70min. If the image is not perfect it's ok - cause it's old, very old film, with bad quality anyway, but the sound has to be good after the conversion. You think it's gonna be ok?

About the Compressor: Yes, the quality was amazingly good, but the render time INCREDIBLY long - all the settings put to best it took 10min for 4 seconds.


Sascha


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Chris Wright
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 5, 2010 at 11:13:52 pm

Don't forget to remove the pulldown(if you have any, you haven't specified) before editing or the cadence will be broken and then you'll have to use compressor to fix broken cadences, which takes even more time.

If you can get that out of the way, then it won't matter if you edit or timestretch in any particular order. And yes, 119.88% is going to slow down the audio a lot.

I recommend an audio ram preview to see if it bothers you. You simply can't change speed of the video, without the audio stretch too, without losing lip sync. If it drives you bonkers, there's frame blending as an option too.

And if the pitch bothers you but the speed is ok, then use adobe audition or protools or something that can change speed but maintain pitch.

OR find someone who has a cryex supercomputer, like James Cameron did for Avatar's 3-d rendering for the infamous compressor software...

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 1:51:15 pm

You run FCP, right? Use MPEG Streamclip to convert to Prores, and Compressor to do the frame rate conversion.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Sascha Engel
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 3:25:41 pm

Yes FCP and AE. Does Compressor do a good job in Converting NTSC to PAL?


Sascha


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Chris Wright
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 4:35:48 pm

I am PC here, but here is a post that talks about the audio matching compressor's settings after optically retiming. I guess the only way to know is to try and see if you like the output. I can't guarantee artifacts or smoothness because I've never used it and there's no extra settings to fine tune it if it freaks out.

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1201&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=denv...

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Sascha Engel
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 4:55:31 pm

Dave, I have another quaetion, you might be able to help me with - as far as you also use MPEG Streamclip:
When I drop one of the VOB Files onto my Streamclip viewer window, as usual, it asks if it should open all files as one movie.
I click yes, but it always misses the first 18 minutes of the DVD, even if I just drop the first VOB file by itself, still the same.
Now, I started encoding at least what I have, without the first 18min, but then in the converted version, at some point the images in the QT Files freezes and just the sound continues. Also it gave, while encoding that there was numerous data breaks.
Any idea what that could be? Never encountered this before and I use Streamclip a lot. Is it because of NTSC VOB?


Sascha


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 2, 2010 at 5:13:24 pm

Sorry, I only use MPEG Steamclip sparingly; I can't give you a straight answer on that.

There are a LOT of posts about frame rate conversion in the FCP forum: the key: using Compressor's Frame Controls.Don't forget that an NTSC DVD is 29.97 fps, 720x540, even if it's widescreen.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Sascha Engel
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 3, 2010 at 5:13:05 pm

Hi Dave,

if MPEG Streamclip is striking on this specific DVD, do you know about another Application that can do that job?

Sascha


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 3, 2010 at 5:18:08 pm

Sorry, I don't, but there has GOT to be some sort of DVD ripping application out there.

Y'know, if I were having problems like yours, I don't think I'd be ashamed to post an Off-topic message on the FCP forum about this. If you've got an MPEG Streamclip problem in a legal DVD-ripping situation, ask away.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Sascha Engel
Re: Converting NTSC DVD to PAL 25 fps QT
on Sep 4, 2010 at 11:50:19 pm

Hi Dave,

I tried to convert it with Compressor to PAL, but it stops with Error message, saying I do not have that Code installed.
Any idea why?


Sascha


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