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Smoke looks bad in 1080

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Joris WillemsenSmoke looks bad in 1080
by on Aug 28, 2010 at 10:45:17 pm

Hi,

I'm working on a project right now in which I combine a woman shot before greenscreen with an all AE made environment consisting of particles reflections and smoke.

It all works according to plan, except the smoke element. The smoke looks very bad, lots of spots and no subtile gradients from white to black.



I have seen this even in blockbuster movies and have tried several ''problem solvers'' such as working in 32 bit colors and overlay grain.

I have tried both stock footage of smoke and created my own with trapcode particular, both have the same problem.

Does anyone have a solution for this?

Thnx!


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Chris WrightRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Aug 29, 2010 at 9:28:08 pm

I don't know exactly what your problem is as you haven't a screenshot. I'm guessing it's the actual compositing itself, lighting, color, randomness. Videocopilot.net has a bunch of tutorials on smoke. One I remember that looks good is the police car tire burning tutorial using particular. Match the light sources using light emitters, match depth of field and wind direction, etc. Also, I made a fractal light project that adds light randomness.
videocopilot.net
ae cs3 aep
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/50/857777

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Joris WillemsenRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Aug 29, 2010 at 9:36:39 pm

Thnx for your reply,

I have included a screenshot? Don't know why you don't see it.
I am aware of Andrew Kramers Videocopilot and other tutorial sites.

However they have no solution for this problem.
I have done many projects, also similar ones... yet this is the first time it really is becoming a problem. I guess it has to do with the fact that there is no background footage to make the alpha gradient look smooth, but there has to be a solution to this. I also should mention that this only happens with subtle smoke with particles with an opacity of 1% and stock footage I have used with a transparancy of 8% because I need a smooth / subtle atmosphere. No hard smoke.

In the meantime I have re-ordered my compositions to exclude the smoke from the main colour correction, the curve crush seems to make it worse, but it is still not a reel solution.

If anyone has an idea I'll be glad to hear it. 24 hours to deadline..

Thnx!


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Chris WrightRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Aug 29, 2010 at 11:49:21 pm

I see the picture now. Since you're on a deadline, I'd quickly check for:

1. any 8 bit plugins being used. They will break the 32bpc.
2. the alpha channels of the images for 8 bit alpha quality
3. straight or premultiplication interpretations
4. remove color matting if premultiplied

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Tudor "Ted" JelescuRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Aug 29, 2010 at 9:46:24 pm

Working in 32 bit should have given you nice smoke gradients. Just to be sure you checked all these:
Working in 32 bit- do not check linearize working space or blend using 1.0 gamma. Render 32 bit tga/tiff then compress using other software (Adobe Media Encoder).
Is the footage of smoke compressed? If so, try rendering out a sequence of uncompressed stills of it before comp-ing over the AE scene.

Tudor "Ted" Jelescu
Senior Compositor/VFX Artist
Bucharest, Romania


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Joris WillemsenRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Aug 30, 2010 at 12:09:28 am

Thnx people!

Tudor, your tip did it! The blend using 1.0 gamma was checked, I've
unchecked it and that did the trick! Thnx!

On the otherhand its a bit ashame I have to redo all the color correction and adjust every screen because of the massive glow the ''stylize glow'' now gives.. But you can't have it all!!

Thnx!


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Mark VanderbieRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Mar 10, 2011 at 10:21:33 pm

hmmm sounds intresting, do you have this video up anywhere? what filmgrain did you use?

-MV


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Joris WillemsenRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Mar 11, 2011 at 4:22:56 pm

Here is the vid; http://vimeo.com/yorizz/systimpromo

Password: yorizz

For the grain I actually used the ''match grain'' option in AE and used the original (greenscreen) footage as source. This gives a very natural blend to the cg elements.


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Mark VanderbieRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Mar 11, 2011 at 4:35:25 pm

the PW didnt work, i tried different variations of yorizz.
i have used artbeats (http://www.fotosearch.com/video-footage/film-grain.html) in the past but its an emulator and looks like garbage (and $$$), magic bullet is cool too. Have you ever used Cinegrain (cinegrain.com), read about it on Reduser.

let me know about the PW i want to see how it turned out!


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Joris WillemsenRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Mar 11, 2011 at 11:41:06 pm

I removed the password, you can now check it
at vimeo.com/yorizz.

Greetz!


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Gary SchiffRe: Smoke looks bad in 1080
by on Mar 18, 2011 at 8:59:21 pm

I have a CineGrain harddrive, it's hard to see what effect it has on footage when you're looking at a computer screen, but on a 40 inch monitor or larger, the 35mm grain's subtlety really makes a difference, I'm a huge fan, clients love it.


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