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titles for film-rasterizing

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melissa kern
titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 5:26:34 pm

hi.
I originally made my text in Illustrator at 300 dpi saved as outlines- and imported as compositions into Ae 10- which I think automatically turns it into 72 dpi.
The post house requested- originally a DPX Sequence, but they said my Alpha channel wasn't showing up-so
they then asked for a .tif sequence with RGB+Alpha setting.. the problem now is that the text I am out putting from AE10 has jagged edges.. I believe this is because AE10 is bitmap based and not true vector.
I have the Continuously Rasterize selected-which helps in terms of scaling- but does not seem to effect the final output of the .tif
does anyone know what I can do to hand the post house as clean a text as possible????
thanks for your time
m



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Dave LaRonde
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 5:43:59 pm

[melissa kern] "I originally made my text in Illustrator at 300 dpi saved as outlines- and imported as compositions into Ae 10- which I think automatically turns it into 72 dpi."

The concept of dots per inch (dpi) is irrelevant in applications that deal primarily with video or motion picture files like AE. If you create a 5-inch wide photoshop document at 450 dpi and a 15-inch wide document at 150 dpi, they will be precisely the same width in AE: 2250 pixels.




[melissa kern] "...they then asked for a .tif sequence with RGB+Alpha setting.. the problem now is that the text I am out putting from AE10 has jagged edges.. I believe this is because AE10 is bitmap based and not true vector."

Again, that vector/bitmap deal is pretty irrelevant. People successfully create graphics all the time in AE. My guess is that you gave the post house the wrong TYPE of alpha-channeled image. There are two: Straight and Premultiplied.

My recommendation is to make two different sequences: one with a Straight alpha channel and one with a Premultiplied alpha channel. One of them will work. You'll find the Straight/Premultiplied selector in the Output Module settings in the AE Render Queue.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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melissa kern
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 6:02:12 pm

thanks for your help.I did provide the post house with both a DPX Alpha premultiplied version and a DPX Alpha straight version.
they said both came up "black"-instead of transparent.
They then requested the .tif with RGB+ALPHA- that they then said was "pixelated".
I am working in 1920 x 1080 32 bit.
in terms of the RGB+ALPHA I sent-I believe was premultiplied..
I can try the straight RGB+ALPHA and see if that helps the with pixelation.
I still have no idea why the alpha channel I am sending them is coming up black?
again. thank you for your help. I'm really at a loss..I haven't worked with a post house before- I usually do my own compositing in AE10 and output the final animation uncompressed. so, I don't even know what software they are using..? could that be the problem?



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Dave LaRonde
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 6:17:47 pm

[melissa kern] "I did provide the post house with both a DPX Alpha premultiplied version and a DPX Alpha straight version. they said both came up "black"-instead of transparent."

Okay, wait a minute -- this is the DPX sequence you're talking about? I don't know if DPX sequences even support alpha channels. Do you? You're the one getting paid.


[melissa kern] "I still have no idea why the alpha channel I am sending them is coming up black?"

I'll assume we're talking about the TIF sequence now. But I don't know for sure, because you were just complaining about everything looking aliased. How can it look aliased if it's all-black?

The TIF graphics format does support alpha channels. If you've ever alpha-channeled QT movies in the Animation codec or something similar, it works the same way. This also assumes that you actually HAVE transparency in your comp to begin with.

And before you send your work out, you can always double-check it by importing the sequence into a new AE project. AE ALWAYS sees an alpha channel.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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melissa kern
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 7:46:45 pm

hey, sorry for the confusion.
supposedly.. with DPX sequences- you do 2 passes. first RGB and then Alpha.
my text is white to be overlayed onto footage.
though
I was having the same trouble with the Tif.. trying to do 2 passes- RGB and then Alpha.
I can only do RGB+ALPHA ... which I am familiar with-its what I use all the time when creating Quicktimes.
the Post House specifically requested the 2 passes- since they will use the alpha channel pass to burn a hole and then fill it with the RGB. at least that how I understand it.
what should be transparent is black-the text remains white. thats how it looks when I reimport back into AE 10
I am using 32 bit
1920 x 1080
floating depth
straight unmatted.
maybe the pixelation is coming from that- which is the other issue. after I gave up on the 2 passes and went back to RGB + Alpha.. the text they say has pixelated edges.
sorry for the confusion. I'm confused too
thanks for your help
m



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Dave LaRonde
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 7:25:43 pm

[melissa kern] "I still have no idea why the alpha channel I am sending them is coming up black?"

Here's another thought: if this is black text over a transparent background, you probably wouldn't see anything.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris Wright
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 6:40:22 pm

If I read your post correctly, you still haven't tried Tiff + alpha straight. Don't forget that it needs a few more settings to work right. Namely trillions+(16 bit) and lzw compression off. Nothing lower than that will survive a film text print. Well, unless its a indie, lol.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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melissa kern
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 7:49:44 pm

hi
thank you for responding.
I just did try Tif straight unmatted Alpha.. but maybe my settings were not correct
I did
32 bit
floating
straight unmatted
and I have no idea what lzw (is that an "L" or an "I"?) setting is or where to find it.
maybe thats it???????
thanks again
m



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melissa kern
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 7:57:18 pm

okay. I figured out what LZW is.. and where to find it.. and yes it was not checked when I created the tiff sequence.
how do you feel about my other settings
RGB+ALPHA (I could not get an Alpha only render to work)
32 bit
floating
straight unmatted



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Chris Wright
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 8:27:38 pm

"(I could not get an Alpha only render to work)"

If the post house wants the alpha separate, then that is what you need to render, but why does the alpha only render fail? What does it say? Do you have transparency by clicking on the the button to see a checkerboard pattern? There's a workflow problem somewhere that needs to be addressed.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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melissa kern
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 30, 2010 at 8:59:16 pm

AE does not say fail. it registers no error. when I check the output module.. it says it has rendered an Alpha channel. in the comp that I am rendering.. the background is transparent ( the original film is on the bottom layer but i have its visibility off- I don't think that could be effecting it.??)
there is no solid layer hidden any where. i think I had frame blending on though- could that mess it up?
I've done this render repeatedly the last couple of days and I am baffled.
I've tried premultiplied.. straight. millions of colors, trillions of colors, floating.
I've remained in 32 bit though.. maybe I should switch to 16 bit???



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Antony Buonomo
Re: titles for film-rasterizing
on Jul 31, 2010 at 10:45:37 am

Hi

I had to do the same thing a couple of months ago.

If this is for film output, then maybe your composition size is too small. That's regular HD size, is that the size they requested?

The next problem we found was that the actual fonts that we had chosen weren't designed as accurately as they should have been and the fault was actually within the font file. At small sizes they just looked crap and in fact it had to be big to get any kind of quality. However, the director wouldn't change his mind so we just changed the design a bit and everybody decided just to live with it.

We also went through using Illustrator files etc., hoping that getting proper vector outlines would solve the problem. It didn't.

Just in case it helps; I delivered a TIFF sequence RGB + Alpha, Trillions of colours, Pre-multiplied, with the project set to 16 BPC.

Contact me if you think I can help further.

A



Vertigo Productions

http://www.vertigo.co.uk


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