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AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p

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Mitch Hardison
AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 1:48:02 pm

I used time remapping on a clip I shot in 60p with a JVC hm700u but I can't even get the clip to play back on my mac. The only way I can watch it is to scrub through it in quick time. Check out the weird waves in the shot now. My project settings were 1280x720 60fps but obviously something is not right...
http://img693.imageshack.us/i/60ptest1.png/'>
http://img97.imageshack.us/i/60ptest2.png/'>


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Adriano Moraes
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 3:52:41 pm

Hi there!

Since you say you´ve used time remaping I figure this strange blob on the guy's hand seems to be due to Frame Blending mode set to Pixel Motion(witch I think is the default).

Depending on how much you messed with the speed this FB mode will have a pretty hard time creating the frames in between the existent ones.

Try changing it to Frame Mix. But keep in mind that there´s a limit fot messing about with footage speeds.

I don´t really know much about what you actually did to the footage (slow, fast, ho much %, etc...) but I´ve seen this "weirdness" before while doing some time remaping and I thought I could try to help by sharing my 2 bits.

More on that matter can be found on AE's help files.

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/aftereffects/cs/using/WS3878526689cb91655866c11...

I hope I was of some help.

Cheers!



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Dave LaRonde
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 4:19:56 pm

Mitch Hardison: "I used time remapping on a clip I shot in 60p with a JVC hm700u but I can't even get the clip to play back on my mac. The only way I can watch it is to scrub through it in quick time."

It certainly could be goofiness caused by frame blending, but I think it's something else. I don't know the technical specs on every camera in the world, but I bet yours is an HDV camera. Because it could be HDV, I have questions:

What version of AE do you run, what codec did you use to render the clip out of AE, and with what application(s) are you attempting to play it back? I'll guess it's quicktime, but the wording isn't clear on that.

Therre could be about a half-dozen things causing the problem, but i'll focus on the most prrobable one. If you're NOT running AE 10 (aka AE CS5), and you ARE shooting HDV, you need to know this:

Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, AVCHD, mp4, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.


Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mitch Hardison
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 5:53:43 pm

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have frame blending turned off in AE CS4. I am filming with a jvc hm700u to a card in .mov's and exporting out of AE to quicktime with no compression and trying to play the video back in quicktime. I tried to play it back in VLC but with the same results. I am using a macbook pro osx. When I render out of AE CS4 i do not chose file>export. I am just adding the comp to the render queue.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 6:02:48 pm

Mitch Hardison: "...I am filming with a jvc hm700u to a card in .mov's..."

Do you understand that ".mov" is NOT a codec, but simply a media container like ".avi"?

And that the media within that container may be in any of the many different codecs available? And that some of those codecs are indeed long-gop / interframe compressed / temporally compressed? And that such codecs give AE 9 absolute fits?

Highlight the footage in the AE project window. Look at the information about it at the top. Find the codec used to encode the quicktime movies. Cros-reference it to the list I posted previously. Then take the appropriate action.

I should also point out that it's almopst a certainty that you did NOT shoot 60p video. Cameras that are able to shoot true 1080 60p video cost about as much as a new Corvette, and the last time I looked, you camera retailed at about $7700. Now, that WAS the price of a new Corvette, but the year was about 1967!

I also learned in the past couple of minutes that it's XDCam EX capable... and XDCam EX most certainly records in a troublesome long-gop / interframe compressed / temporally compressed codec. It's mp4, if I remember correctly...

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mitch Hardison
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 6:09:59 pm

thanks for being patient with me Dave. I will check it out and get back with you


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Adriano Moraes
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 6:20:47 pm

Just another shot in the dark here Mitch though I think your solution is more on Dave's wise words:

Are you by any chance using OpenGL on your render settings?




This thing can really make your life miserable when working with graphics....I don´t know about footage.

Well. Sorry if I´m saying something stupid but came to my mind.

Cheers and the best of luck!



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doug nash
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 6:50:22 pm

I'm using CS3, and have routinely avoided using frame blending because the horribly blobby results. Often, I'm using source footage from either Avid DNxHD or ProRes. These don't have the time/frame issues of things like AVI or the like, correct?

Has Adobe improved upon the frame blending algorithms with CS4 or CS5? I guess it's an imperfect science. Has anyone found a way to use RSMB to fill in missing frames, without necessarily blurring the inter-frames?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 7:58:52 pm

doug nash: "Often, I'm using source footage from either Avid DNxHD or ProRes. These don't have the time/frame issues of things like AVI or the like, correct? "

Well, of course they can; a frame rate is a frame rate, and interframe compression is interframe compression, and Pre-AE 10 versions don't like interframe compression.

If you put 25fps Avid footage in a 23.976 AE comp, there will be trouble. I have NO CLUE how Avid treats film frame rates, nor the frame rate of the footage out of avid, so there could be problems if you shoot 24p and DO NOT remove the pulldown in Avid, then try to use an edit timeline as if it's 23.976 fps in AE.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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doug nash
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 4, 2010 at 8:56:14 pm

Thanks. In this current case, I'm working with some progressive RED footage, which was transcoded to 29.97p ProRes Codec. I'm doubling the length for semi-slo-mo. Working in 30fps comp, but should that even be an issue for a five-second clip? I think I'm just seeing reasonable limits of what can be faked, inter-frame.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 5, 2010 at 2:28:51 pm

Was this RED footage shot at 60p? You can conform the frame rate to 29.97 for an absoluterly smooth half-speed shot.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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doug nash
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 5, 2010 at 9:26:15 pm

No, the footage was shot at 4K res and 30p. They also shot 120fps, with the highly degraded 2K image.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: AE doing weird things with footage shot in 60p
on Jul 6, 2010 at 1:55:40 pm

Now I'm confused. The title of your post talks about 60p, but now you say the footage is 30p. Can you clarify?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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