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De-Interlace Issue

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jim branstetterDe-Interlace Issue
by on Jul 1, 2010 at 9:15:27 pm

Hi,

I have some public Domain footage that I need to integrate with a music video for web streaming , and there are some questions/problems with the found footage.

First my specs for the project are;
864x486
square pixel
24 fps
progressive

Now for the pubic domain footage (typical example can be found at; http://www.archive.org/details/hindenberg_explodes);
typical specs for found footage;
mpeg2 or mpeg4
640x480
square
29.97
no fields

About my problems with footage. The footage is not de-interlaced even though it has no fields. So the format properties show no fields. It was also shot on film most likely @24fps. but now its 29.97(dv).

So my question is what is the best way to get rid of the interlacing and/or convert footage to "real" progressive? The project was edited in FCP and will be finished off in After Effects.

The project has already been edited and the found footage can be rendered separate from my footage for composing in AE.

I have the Nattress G-filters for FCP and Magic Bullet for AE, I also have access to a friends machine with Magic Bullet Editors for FCP.

And the other question , what is the best way to convert this footage to 24fps?

Thanks In Advance,


Jim Branstetter
RubberBulletStudio.com

Jim Branstetter
RubberBulletStudio.com


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Walter SoykaRe: De-Interlace Issue
by on Jul 2, 2010 at 1:15:02 pm

[jim branstetter] "First my specs for the project are;
864x486
square pixel
24 fps
progressive "


Just for clarity -- are your specs 24p as in 24.0 frames per second, or 23.976 frames per second? After Effects is very precise about frame rate.

[jim branstetter] "So my question is what is the best way to get rid of the interlacing and/or convert footage to "real" progressive? The project was edited in FCP and will be finished off in After Effects."

Have you tried removing the pulldown?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dave LaRondeRe: De-Interlace Issue
by on Jul 2, 2010 at 1:17:36 pm

[jim branstetter] "what is the best way to convert this footage to 24fps? "

Flip a coin: Nattress or AE. Here's how it's done in AE:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS3878526689cb91655866c1103906...




[jim branstetter] "First my specs for the project are;
864x486
square pixel
24 fps
progressive "


That sounds like 16x9 SD to me. You forgot to mention one thing: the codec in which you're editing in FCP. If you choose to use AE to remove the pulldown, you will want to render it out in the edit codec of your FCP timeline.

I also doubt very much that you're working in 24fps. You're probably working in 23.98, which is actually 23.976 frames/sec. It may seem like splitting hairs, but these are very important distinctions, and you have to keep them in mind. To wit: AE calls a spade a spade when it comes to the NTSC film frame rate, so you have to work in 23.976 comps.





[jim branstetter] "Now for the pubic domain footage:
mpeg2 or mpeg4
640x480
square
29.97
no fields "


A few things here.

First, if it's SD video, IT HAS FIELDS. The technical specification for SD video dictates that the footage has fields. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to remove the pulldown.
For 640x480, the field order -- incorrectly called field dominance in FCP -- is upper field first.

Second, if this footage contains any cuts, you may have to remove pulldown for each shot. If you're confident that any cuts in the footage were made in the '30's and not recently, don't worry about it and just remove pulldown.

Third, if you don't have AE 10 (aka AE CS5) yet, you need to convert the footage to a different codec before working with it in AE. Here's what's up with that:

Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, AVCHD, mp4, mts, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.

I'm a Mac guy, so I like to convert to Quicktime movies in the Animation or PNG codecs; both are lossless. I'll use Apple's Compressor, Adobe Media Encoder or Quicktime Pro to do it.


Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Kevin CampRe: De-Interlace Issue
by on Jul 2, 2010 at 4:20:05 pm

[jim branstetter] "The footage is not de-interlaced even though it has no fields. So the format properties show no fields. It was also shot on film most likely @24fps. but now its 29.97(dv)."

i assume you can see the interlacing and that's how you know that it's not de-interlaced. also, if it was 24p, but recorded at 29.97, you will see a pattern of 2 interlaced frames and 3 progressive frames (possibly 1 int, 4 prog, if 24pa) as you step frame by frame through the footage... if you don't then it probably wasn't shot in 24p.

if it is indeed 24p with a pulldown, then getting it back to 24p is a breeze in ae (i'm sure walter's link describes this) and there are no plugins needed.

if the interlacing is on all frames, then it was not shot in 24p, and you will still want to separate fields in the interpret footage settings, then try any of the various methods of converting 30i to 24p.

some things to watch for regardless of 24p or 30i:

field order... it's normally lower for sd, but could be upper depending on how it was captured, especially since 640x480 is common with analog capture, and field order will be determined by the capture settings.

field mush... if the footage was shot/captured in dv, 480 is the standard vertical res. if it was d1 and then exported as 480, then it may have been scaled from 486 to 480 (rather than cropped). if that happened after the interlacing was done, then you will not be able to remove the interlacing.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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