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Frame rate problem in AE

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Martin Del Rio
Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 1:24:11 am

Hello:

I'm having problems to export an animation made in After Effects.

The COMP settings in After Effects are:
1920x1080
Pixel aspect ratio: square
Frame rate: 29.97

I export using render queue with this settings:

Best settings:
frame rate 29.97
quality best
resolution full
size 1920x1080

Lossless:
Compression type: XD CAM EX 1080 p30 (35 Mb/s VBR)
fps 29.97

Once I have the quicktime file exported, I open Final Cut Pro and my Sequence settings are:

Frame size: 1920x1080 HDTV 1080i (16:9)
Pixel aspect ratio: square
Field dominance: none
Editing Timebase: 29.97
Compressor: XD CAM 1080 p30 (35 Mb/s VBR)

finally I import the quicktime video with the animation to Final Cut Pro and when I play the video in the timeline the motion looks different, it stutters. It looks like the fps doesn't match the sequence settings.

I would really appreciate any help please.

So far I've check all the settings in both AE and FCP, but for some reason the animation doesn't look good when I open it in FCP.

Thank you very much for your time guys, I apologize for this long message.

All best,

Martin


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Bret Williams
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 2:11:11 am

Does it say it requires rendering In FCP? If not then it matches. If it requires rendering there will be some color bar at top of timeline. Green, orange, red, etc.

Your system may not be able to play it back. Although any drive should be able to play 35/ mb xdcam. In your user prefs, is it set to abort playback on dropped frames?

I did have a situation today where my prores 1080p was showing up as orange even though everything matched. When I turned off the scopes playback, the orange went away. Completely repeatable. Never seen that.


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Martin Del Rio
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 2:24:32 am

Hi Brett:
Thank you for your response. When I import the file to FCP and I drop it to the timeline, FCP doesn't give me any error message, there is no need to render anything. But as soon as I hit play almost at the end of the animation, it stutters.

Also, when I want to check the clip settings of the animation inside FCP I get an error message that reads:

No items have files applicable to this operation

I exported the same animation from AE compressed in Apple PRO RES HQ, then when I import that file in FCP, I drag the file to the timeline and FCP asks me to match the video settings to sequence settings, I hit OK and then the video plays without any problems.

What do you think is going on?

Thank you very much for your help Brett,

All best,

Martin



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Bret Williams
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 2:27:07 am

What does it look like in QT player? You could try the same thing to make sure you have the right seq settings for the xdcam. Delete the pro res clip so the timeline is empty, then drag in the xdcam clip. It should ask to match the settings. Say yes.


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Martin Del Rio
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 5:52:47 pm

Hi Bret:

The file looks fine in QT player. I checked all the settings for the XD CAM sequence and everything matches. One thing that I noticed is that in the sequence settings next to FRAME SIZE it reads HDTV 1080i (16:9) I think that " i " stands for interlaced.

In After Effects inside render queue I couldn't find any option for interlaced in XD CAM EX compression in fact the compression set in FCP is XD CAM 1080p30, the same compression that I set in After Effects.

" Delete the pro res clip so the timeline is empty, then drag in the xdcam clip. It should ask to match the settings. Say yes."

I did that and it didn't work. Would it be a problem with the playback settings?

Finally I imported the file compressed in ANIMATION and it plays fine inside FCP.

I still can't get the XD CAM EX file to work in FCP although the sequence has the same settings.

Thank you Bret,

Martin






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Dave LaRonde
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 2:30:56 pm

[Martin Del Rio] "When I import the file to FCP and I drop it to the timeline, FCP doesn't give me any error message... it stutters. "

This sounds like you dropped it into an EXISTING FCP edit timeline. What happens if you drop it into a brand-new edit timeline?








[Martin Del Rio] "I exported the same animation from AE compressed in Apple PRO RES HQ... FCP asks me to match the vide settings to sequence settings, I hit OK and then the video plays without any problems. "

Three things to comment upon: first, never export from AE unless you have no other option, always render using the Render Queue. Second, the folks on the FCP forum regard ProRes HQ as overkill for everything except things like 2K or 3K files from a RED camera. Third, do you notice the difference in your procedure? You dropped the clip into a brand-new edit timeline on this occasion.

I think if you just change the XDCam clip's Field Order -- incorrectly called Field Dominance in FCP -- to None in the Browser, you will see a big difference.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Martin Del Rio
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 5:36:30 pm

Hello Dave:

I created a new project with a new timeline in FCP and I made sure the "field dominance" was set to NONE. Then I dropped the XD CAM EX 1080p30 file to the timeline and when I played it back the results were the same... The animation stutters.

I used render queue in AE, I checked all the settings and everything matches. There's one thing that I couldn't set in the XD CAM EX option in render queue. That is the field order. I couldn't find any option for that. Other than that, everything was set to match.

The frame rate is 29.97 and I already checked that in render queue inside AE.

When I tried using a different compression like ANIMATION in render queue in AE, the results are better when I open that file in FCP. It plays good.

Another thing... When I open the XD CAM file in quicktime itself, it plays fine.

Should I use the ANIMATION compression or should I just keep trying to use exactly the same compression that my client has in his FCP sequence?

My client has to put the animation at the end of a life-action footage (It's just an animated logo at the end of a TV commercial).

Thank you very much for your help Dave, I really appreciate it.

Cheers

Martin




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Dave LaRonde
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on Apr 29, 2010 at 7:23:41 pm

Heck, if the client's on Final Cut Pro, just deliver in ProRes 422, the go-to codec for any FCP cutter. As an FCP guy myself, I have absolutely NO problems with that. Need an alpha channel? Do ProRes 4444.

Now, I don't know much about XDCam, so I have to ask: isn't that stuff m2t or mts files, or something like that? I'm asking YOU, and you ought to know. I never work with the stuff. You didn't use XDCam footage still in its acquisition codec, did you? This wasn't captyured & converted to Prores, was it?

If it IS still just glorified HDV -- and I suspect it could be -- you've got ogher problems:

Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, AVCHD, mp4, mts, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Martin Del Rio
Re: Frame rate problem in AE
on May 1, 2010 at 8:24:25 pm

Hey Dave:

Well...the guy editing the video couldn't give me a useful answer. He shot the video with a Sony XDCAM HD at 29.97 fps and then captured the footage in default settings. Yeah I know It is frustrating answer...I just going to get back to him and recreate every step from the actual settings on the camera, the camera specifications, the capture process and the sequence settings in FCP.

Thanks Dave,
Martin

Martin Del Rio


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