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How to render in mov, no loss in quality, and with no compression?

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john lynn
How to render in mov, no loss in quality, and with no compression?
on Mar 6, 2010 at 11:41:00 pm

Hello


I usually edit in Sony Vegas and render in Quicktime 7 uncompressed. The footage comes out uncompressed and as if it was straight from the camera. I want to finish up in After Effects, but the Quicktime Animation codec comes out in noticeably different quality. I would like no compression, and no change in quality. I would also like it in mov OR at least compatible with Final Cut Pro. I don't care about file size.

How do I do this?

Thanks


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Joey Foreman
Re: How to render in mov, no loss in quality, and with no compression?
on Mar 7, 2010 at 3:26:34 am

What do you mean by "noticeably different quality?"
Edge detail, color/gamma fidelity, lack of visible artifacting?
All of these I suppose.

Animation at full quality is widely considered visually lossless.

Arguments aside, you've got several choices. Why not run some tests?

8 or 10 bit Uncompressed
ProRes 4444 or HQ
None
Tiff Sequence

[john lynn] The footage comes out uncompressed and as if it was straight from the camera.

Very few cameras have uncompressed output, e.g. Sony F950, Viper, CineAlta, and certain 'lower end' cameras that have been hacked to bypass compression through HDMI and a capable capture card. And of course film, via scanning.

Color or Gamma shifts may occur with any of these without a comprehensive color management strategy that takes into account platform, application, broadcast spec, external monitoring, bit depth, chroma subsampling, etc., etc., not to mention acquisition format, in-camera compression, and, well, that just about scratches the surface.

And if your footage is interlaced, the deinterlacing algorithm used is yet another factor in determining quality.

Oh yea, don't forget about de-artifacting.











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Todd Kopriva
Re: How to render in mov, no loss in quality, and with no compression?
on Mar 7, 2010 at 4:33:56 pm

> Animation at full quality is widely considered visually lossless.


Actually, it's much better than that. Animation at full quality is lossless. Not just "visually lossless". The data reconstructed when you decode a movie with the Animation codec is exactly the same as that which was encoded---as long as the encoding was done with quality at 100%.

Granted, it's only an 8bpc codec, and the compression is poor (i.e., the files are still huge).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
putting the 'T' back in 'RTFM' : After Effects Help on the Web
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If a page of After Effects Help answers your question, please consider rating it. If you have a tip, technique, or link to share---or if there is something that you'd like to see added or improved---please leave a comment.


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Steve Roberts
Re: How to render in mov, no loss in quality, and with no compression?
on Mar 7, 2010 at 5:38:45 pm

Like a ZIP file, right?



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Todd Kopriva
Re: How to render in mov, no loss in quality, and with no compression?
on Mar 7, 2010 at 6:32:09 pm

> Like a ZIP file, right?


Very much like that.

There are lossless codecs, and there are lossy codecs. Some lossy codecs lose so little information that no human can tell the difference in the image; these are called "visually lossless" codecs. Visually lossless codecs are great for final delivery and viewing, and you can sometimes get away with using them as intermediate codecs. Truly lossless codecs are best for intermediate files, since you don't get a decrease in image quality with each generation along your post-production pipeline.

Any codec uses math to compress the data. If the math is hard, the decoding takes a long time, so the codec is not practical as a playback codec. For example, PNG is a lossless codec that is more efficient than Animation, but the math is harder, so PNG doesn't work well as a playback codec. It's great as an intermediate codec, though.

Be careful when you say "no compression", and make sure that what you mean isn't "no loss in image quality".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
putting the 'T' back in 'RTFM' : After Effects Help on the Web
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a page of After Effects Help answers your question, please consider rating it. If you have a tip, technique, or link to share---or if there is something that you'd like to see added or improved---please leave a comment.


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Tanel Viksi
Re: How to render in mov, no loss in quality, and with no compression?
on Mar 7, 2010 at 2:44:13 pm

Try Cineform,

Here's some information about Prores and QT :

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/2/956353
http://sites.google.com/site/fcpaegammaissue/

Creat post by Cools, (scroll down, 8th post)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=163561

So - do the tests, create black and white gradient and
export it using different codecs. Test PAL/601
and HD/709 color spaces separately and RGB.
If you do not have scope - use Photoshop and measure
certain points in gradients -export stills from every
application you are using. Time consuming, but at least you know
what's going on and where the problems might be.

Tanel

http://www.filmpost.ee


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