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Text studder in 23.976 during camera move

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Nate HurwitzText studder in 23.976 during camera move
by on Feb 20, 2010 at 9:45:47 pm

Hey,

Just want to say thanks once again for all the help from this forum that I've received so far, you guys rock!

My question is, has anyone ever had a stutter with text on a 3D plane during a camera movement? This is what it looks like:

http://www.ventforyourlife.com/nate_temp/MAP_Camera_movements_7.mov.zip

All Comp settings are: 1280x720 in 24fps (23.976)

Render settings are: Best, Full, Read Only, No Proxies, Use Comp's frame rate, Color Depth is "current settings", and frame rate is comp frame rate (I'm leaving a couple items out that I think are not necessary to list).

Output Module: Lossless


Any suggestions on how I could make the text look a bit smoother would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!



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Walter SoykaRe: Text studder in 23.976 during camera move
by on Feb 20, 2010 at 11:00:22 pm

You can reduce that stuttering effect by using Motion Blur.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dave LaRondeRe: Text stutter in 23.976 during camera move
by on Feb 21, 2010 at 6:38:09 pm

As Walter says, a little motion blur might just do the trick, no further tweaking needed.

But you have to remember: you're working at a FILM FRAME RATE. You have fewer frames per second. All kinds of motion will be less smooth. By using a film frame rate, you have fewer discrete images per second, and more opportunity to get a stuttery look in the motion... especially horizontal motion, and especially at certain horizontal speeds. A bit faster or a bit slower at the same frame rate may also be required.

"23.976" and "smooth motion" can very easily be mutually-exclusive terms. That's the price you sometimes have to pay to work at a film frame rate.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: Text stutter in 23.976 during camera move
by on Feb 21, 2010 at 7:46:02 pm

[Dave LaRonde] ""23.976" and "smooth motion" can very easily be mutually-exclusive terms. That's the price you sometimes have to pay to work at a film frame rate."

Dave makes a great point -- on a film shoot, part of the DP's job is to make sure all the camera moves will work; a pan that's just a little too fast can distract the audience and wreck the shot. The DP will adjust the shot to achieve the director's vision as closely as possible while avoiding technical flaws.

When creating motion graphics with virtual cameras, we have to be both the director and the DP, and in this case that means compromising a bit of motion to avoid stuttering.

Learning a bit about cinematography and applying practical production wisdom to motion graphics production can be really helpful.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Nate HurwitzRe: Text stutter in 23.976 during camera move
by on Feb 21, 2010 at 8:37:40 pm

Those are some excellent points.

Dave - Thanks, in the end you can't modify the frame rate. Whatever the final output is, is. Camera movement will have to be modified to make it work at 23.976fps, which is what I plan on fixing. Thanks for reminding me about that - *bonks head with small rubber bat*

Walter - Thanks for advice, good point on the job of a DP. I will have to tweak till it looks smooth!

Thanks a ton!


Nate Hurwitz
Digital Media Arts/Music Major
Do you love it?


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Martin Del Rioobjects stagger during camera pan in 23.976
by on Feb 21, 2010 at 11:27:25 pm

Hello:

I am working with a 1920x1080 23.976 progressive Composition in After Effects CS3. I'm having problems trying to achieve a smooth camera pan.

I have a long camera pan from left to right and then from bottom to top. All the elements in the pan stagger.

There are several pre-comps in the main composition with the camera pan. I have checked each one of them and they are all in 29.976 fps progressive although some of them have a different aspect ratio (NOT 1920x1080). I also checked the motion blur in all the layers and it is OFF.

I'm just wondering if any of you guys can help me with this issue, I will really appreciate it.

Thank you very much for your time,

Martin


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Dave LaRondeRe: objects stagger during camera pan in 23.976
by on Feb 22, 2010 at 4:11:58 pm

You don't say how you are playing this back.

On a RAM Preview? If so, is it previewing in real time?

On a rendered file in a media viewer? If it's a high-quality file, can your hard drive keep up with the high bitrate?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Martin Del RioRe: objects stagger during camera pan in 23.976
by on Feb 23, 2010 at 2:33:24 am

Hi Dave:

Thank you for your response.

I'm playing this on a full resolution RAM preview and then playing this on a rendered file Apple PRO RES 422 HQ progressive. The same problem happens in both.

The quality of all the layers is set to BEST resolution. I'm also working with 3D layers in order to use the camera zoom. All this layers including the BG are parented to an Adjustment Layer. I'm animating this Adjustment layer to create the illusion of the camera pan.

Here is a link to a compressed version of the file:

http://www.martinsillusions.com/SODA.mov

The guy working in FCP has the same problem with the exported file that I gave him.

Thank you very much for your time Dave,

Cheers,

Martin









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Dave LaRondeRe: objects stagger during camera pan in 23.976
by on Feb 23, 2010 at 4:11:39 pm

I don't see anything wrong with it. It looks like what you'd expect from an AE animation at a film frame rate. If motion blur doesn't do the trick for you, and you're stuck working at 23.976, you may just have to live with it.

Progressive 23.976 simply is not as smooth as 720p 59.94. It won't ever be. If you want smoother motion, use a higher frame rate.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Martin Del RioRe: objects stagger during camera pan in 23.976
by on Feb 24, 2010 at 11:35:00 pm

Hello Dave:

I used motion blur and it looks a little bit better. Maybe if I play with the Advance options in the composition settings:

-Shutter Angle
-Shutter Phase
-Sample Per Frame
-Adaptive Sample Limit

What do you recommend?

Once again, thank you very much for your help.
All best,

Martin


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Dave LaRondeRe: objects stagger during camera pan in 23.976
by on Feb 24, 2010 at 11:39:24 pm

If your object is to increase motion blur, play with the shutter angle. Unlike the real world, you can open the AE shutter beyond 360 degrees. I've known people to use 720 degrees.

This just increases the blur. It doesn't make the motion any smoother. You're stuck with the frame rate you have.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Martin Del RioRe: objects stagger during camera pan in 23.976
by on Feb 25, 2010 at 7:10:42 am

Hello Dave:

Thank you for your help, 24 frames is not an easy frame rate to work with. I'll keep playing with the options for the motion blur.

cheers,

Martin





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