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Upper/Lower field question

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gary dumbill
Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 4, 2010 at 8:48:07 pm

HI, Apologies if this has been covered, or if there is a post somewhere else- if you could point me in the correct direction it would be most appreciated.
Here is my problem-
I am sent video footage which i will turn into a graphics heavy music videos then supply the film maker with a finished .mov file (usually using an animation codec). Although graphic heavy they contain both footage and large section of animation. The film maker will then get a third party to put the file onto digi beta, then it is sent to TV. The final output/render of this video was done using after effects.
I have been told the latest digi beta the TV company has contains both and lower field separation. It needs to be all upper.
If i import the finished .mov file into after effects>interpret the footage to upper field first and render it out again, will this solve the problem? Or will i have to go though all of the original raw footage in premiere and export it all as upper.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

Gary


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 4, 2010 at 9:14:32 pm

Was this PAL or NTSC? What was the frame rate at which it was shot? Progressive or interlaced? Who captured the video, and how did they go about creating the clips that you're using?

They're all important questions, and without answers, we can't give you useful advice.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Kevin Camp
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 4, 2010 at 9:26:04 pm

you just need to determine the field order of the footage that you are using in after effects, set that in the interpret footage settings and let after effects separate the fields. then render out of ae with the proper field order (set upper or lower in the render settings.

this part of the manual discusses field order and determining the order of footage items:

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS3878526689cb91655866c1103906...

you'll need to go through every clip to check the field order, if one is incorrect, you'll need to change the order setting in the interpret footage panel.

you may be able to check the order of all footage used inthe comp, by temporarily setting the comp's frame rate to double (if it's 25, set it to 50; 29.97, set to 59.94). then use frame up/down to go through a several frames of each footage item to see if the movement is smooth or steps back and forth. when you find a clip that steps back and forth, right-click on the footage layer and choose reveal in project. then choose file>interpret footage>main and set the separate fields option to the other field.

once you're done remember to set the comp back to the the correct frame rate. and when you render, set the field order in the render settings to the correct order and ae will handle the conversion of the differing clips.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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gary dumbill
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 4, 2010 at 9:40:11 pm

Thanks Kevin.
The whole thing is a single .mov file. 25fps, pal.
Should this simply work if i separate the fields for the single clip in the interpret footage or will i need scan through the whole .mov at 50fps would you say?

Gary


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 4, 2010 at 9:53:14 pm

Yup, that's how you do field order.

I'm trying to eliminate the screwier possibilities: a workflow such as shooting in 24p, cutting in 29.97 with no pulldown removal, then conforming to 25fps comes to mind.

I've read about people doing it and treating it like it was footage they always use. Then they can't understand why it looks bad.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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gary dumbill
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 4, 2010 at 10:03:40 pm

Well ive imported the single .mov file to after effects- separated the fields and rendered out a new .mov file upper field first using after effects. When i import the .mov file back into after effects it is showing as upper field first under - interpret footage. So i guess this has done the trick.
Unfortunately most of my knowledge is more creative and almost exclusive to after effects, which is where problems may have arisen in editing and the more technical things, so i can't really help you work it out anymore I'm afraid. But will know the importance of determining fields in the future....
thanks


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Kevin Camp
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 5, 2010 at 8:28:23 pm

you wouldn't be able to properly fix the mixed field orders if you had it as one single file. if the piece had been created entirely in ae, then you'd need to go back to the original comp that had all the footage and repair the field order for the bad clips there, then re-render. (this was what it sounded like you had, but i may have misread).

if the piece had been edited then exported from an nle with footage that had mixed fields, and you just used ae to add motion graphics to the edited piece. then you would need to repair the field order for any bad clips in the nle and re-export to ae.

if the problem was just that the edited material had one field order, ae was set to not separate those fields and you rendered the final as the opposite field order (so the motion graphics were at a different field order than the footage), then telling ae to separate fields (with the correct order) would work.

so it comes down the what your situation is...

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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gary dumbill
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 5, 2010 at 10:44:03 pm

i think i understand. I will try to explain a little better-

The project was exported from Adobe premiere as a .mov file. Then i imported that into After Effects- added the graphics then rendered that as a .mov file also without separating the fields. This was the finished file i sent off and found out the it had different fields.

Would it work- taking the completed .mov file i have (with mixed fields) back into After effects- separating the upper field and rendering it as upper field field first. Creating a file which is upper field first.

Or would i have to go back from the start into premiere and change the original source files there?

Basically can i take a .mov that has different fields- separate them in ae, render it out of ae upper first and have that file come out all all upper first.

Thanks so much for this advice

gary



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Kevin Camp
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 6, 2010 at 4:10:03 am

[gary dumbill] "Basically can i take a .mov that has different fields- separate them in ae, render it out of ae upper first and have that file come out all all upper first. "

i don't think it will work that way. you can try it, but i think you will end up with the same problem. the shots that have the wrong order would still have the wrong order. you would need to handle those clips separately.

you may be able to have ae separate fields, then render progressive. it would be the easy way, but there would be some de-interlace artifacts. depending on the footage, it may or may not be very noticeable.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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gary dumbill
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 6, 2010 at 10:59:57 am

I will go back to the original footage then- thanks

How can i check that the fields dont switch on the movie file i produce? Sorry if this is a pretty basic question- i'm a creative motion graphics guy who usually has techinical people on hand to point me in the right direction in work, but the first time ive freelanced using footage.

Thanks


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Kevin Camp
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 8, 2010 at 3:22:14 pm

[gary dumbill] "How can i check that the fields dont switch on the movie file i produce?"

i assume you're talking out of your nle..? if so, you need to figure out which shots have the wrong field order. it's hard to say how you got them that way, but they most likely came from a different source than the other footage, or may have been captured someplace else then imported into your nle...

once you find them, you'll need to reverse the field order. an easy way is to just position those clips up or down one line in the frame. there may be a way to just change a setting for the clip (like interpret footage in ae) but you'd need to look that up for you nle.

then, when you export from the nle, you should be able to choose the field order and all should be good.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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gary dumbill
Re: Upper/Lower field question
on Feb 24, 2010 at 5:28:33 pm

Hi, Sorry but i'm still havent a bit of an issue with this and want to make its 100% right before i send it back off.
i noticed a few shots had scan lines.
Would this be the part which is switching fields?
In the nle there wasnt an option to separate the fields, but if i de-interlaced the clips it sorted it out. I then rendered it out upper field, imported into AE, did the motion graphics and exported that final file as upper first.
In your opinion would this have solved the problem.
Thanks


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