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Rendering Problems, please help.

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Max RoyRendering Problems, please help.
by on Jan 19, 2010 at 6:57:20 pm

I've not found a similar problem, hence the new thread.

So I edited a video in Premiere Pro. Basic editing, added an MP3 file, and cut a bunch of 1280x720 AVI clip to it.

With that done I saved the project and then imported the Premiere Pro CS3 project to After Effects CS3 where I added some visual effects.

Now here is my problem, I've tried various ways to do this but all failed. I want to render the video out to 1280x720, same quality as I imported it and same quality as the clips I used. I'd say there's maybe 500mb to 750mb worth of information in the clip.

Now, if I try to render (Through Composition > Render Queue always) to an AVI file, same size and quality, I get a laggy 18Gb file with no sound.

Most success I got was using MPEG-2 Blu-ray (The normal MPEG-2 didn't let me 720p for some reason), the quality was fine and the size great, but the audio and the video were separate files. I've tried Multiplex with MPEG-2 Blu-ray but that just gives me an error.

Is there a way to render it as a single file video/audio, 1280x720, no compression or lost of quality?

This is to put on Youtube, it'll be in HD.

Please please help, any help will be appreciated.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Rendering Problems, please help.
by on Jan 19, 2010 at 7:34:10 pm

You have three issues going on here: 2 definitely giving you trouble, and one that's possibly giving you trouble.

Issue #1: Don't use mp3's in AE! AE hates compressed audio. Change to either aiff or wav files.


Issue #2: AE doesn't make mpeg2 video well at all. Read On

Dave's Stock Answer #3:

Don't use AE to compress files for final delivery. The various compressors are there only to make quick 'n dirty files showing a project's progress to producers, clients, the kids, etc. AE is incapable of doing multipass encoding, a crucial feature that greatly improves the image quality of H.264 and MPEG-type files in particular.

Render a high-quality file from AE, and use a different application to do the compression. Popular ones are Adobe Media Encoder, Sorenson Squeeze and Apple's Compressor, which comes bundled with Final Cut Suite. Even compressing in Quicktime Pro is better than compressing in AE.

Making good-looking compressed files is almost as much an art as it is a science. It is NOT straightforward at all. I recommend asking a few questions at the COW's Compression Techniques forum.



Issue #3: This is the possible one. AVI is just a media container. Inside it is the media file, which no doubt is compressed using one of many codecs. And if you have the wrong codec, it's trouble. Read On:

Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, mp4, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.


Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael SzalapskiRe: Rendering Problems, please help.
by on Jan 19, 2010 at 7:39:41 pm

AE doesn't like MP3's any more than it likes other interframe compression schemes which, I suspect you may have.
Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, mp4, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.


Now, when you say the AVI is laggy, how are you trying to play it back? An AVI file that is uncompressed (especially an HD one) is NOT going to be able to be played off of a normal hard drive. The data rate is just too high. Try importing that AVI into Premiere and seeing if it plays back choppy.
Anyway, you should be using Premiere as your final output anyway. Export your lossless video (AVI or, Quicktime with a PNG codec [not a PNG sequence]) from AE and import it into Premiere (or straght into Adobe's Media Encoder) and export it as your final file type, probably H.264 since you're going to YouTube.
Again, one of Dave's Stock Answers comes in handy:
Dave's Stock Answer #3:

Don't use AE to compress files for final delivery. The various compressors are there only to make quick 'n dirty files showing a project's progress to producers, clients, the kids, etc. AE is incapable of doing multipass encoding, a crucial feature that greatly improves the image quality of H.264 and MPEG-type files in particular.

Render a high-quality file from AE, and use a different application to do the compression. Popular ones are Adobe Media Encoder, Sorenson Squeeze and Apple's Compressor, which comes bundled with Final Cut Suite. Even compressing in Quicktime Pro is better than compressing in AE.

Making good-looking compressed files is almost as much an art as it is a science. It is NOT straightforward at all. I recommend asking a few questions at the COW's Compression Techniques forum.


As far as your audio goes, export it from Premiere as a WAV and use that in AE instead of the MP3 file.

The reason the "normal" MPEG-2 wouldn't let you do 720 is that DVD's can't do HD. They're stuck at the SD industry standard.

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Rendering Problems, please help.
by on Jan 19, 2010 at 7:42:48 pm

Michael, we think alike, sir.....

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael SzalapskiRe: Rendering Problems, please help.
by on Jan 19, 2010 at 7:45:06 pm

Darn it, I see Dave's already told you his answers!
Serves me right for doing work in the middle of typing up a post.

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Max RoyRe: Rendering Problems, please help.
by on Jan 19, 2010 at 9:11:30 pm

Thank you very much for all the quick help! I ended up using the MPEG-2 Blu-ray files I got from AE Rendering and put the m4v with the wav back into Premiere Pro. I then exported to Quicktime in 1280x720, and it seems all good, there's a bit of quality loss, but not horrendous, it'll work.

Thank you very much again for the quick responses.


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