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Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?

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Chaz WrenRendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 12:28:01 am

Hi,
So I've got an FCP timeline with some keyed footage and I've now realised that KeyLight is bundled with After Effects. Very intrigued after hearing good stuff so I tried it and love it, without doubt the best key I've achieved with this footage, hands down.

So now the dilemma, every time I render the final footage out from AE, I get an end file that shows up as an 'apcs' codec instead of the original 422(LT). I'd much rather keep all my clips within my FCP timeline as ProRes 422(LT) if possible. Is it?

I heard that you can round trip only between FCP and Premier? That sucks.


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Steve RobertsRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 2:07:24 am

Not sure if I understand you but ... AE doesn't automatically render footage in its original codec. The Render Queue includes Output Modules which render to certain default codecs or codecs of your choice.

If you're doing a only few of these, you can click on the name of the default Output Module (usually "lossless") and change the codec to ProRes 422 under "format options". If you're doing a bunch, make a custom Output Module from the drop-down menu next to the words "Output Module". For more info, check the manual.



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Chaz WrenRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 1:11:27 pm

Thanks for the response guys.
Unfortunately I've tried a bunch of times with various settings and the properties of the end file always show as being an 'apcs' codec. I've selected 'current settings' and chosen ProRes 422(LT) in the Video Format section, 1080i, 25fps etc to match the original file (and my timeline) exactly, but always the same in the end. apcs codec, also noticed that the bit depth ends up around 14,000 whereas the original had a bit depth of around 84,000, the file size is smaller too.

In regards to the round tripping (Adam Taylor), perhaps I didn't explain very well. I'm aware you can round trip between Adobe products and Apple products, but it's a round trip between FCP and AE I'm looking for. So far, I gather the trip would have to be from FCP to Premier, then to AE, then back to Premier, then somehow (hopefully) back to FCP via another xml export? Seems incredibly long winded just to keep the native codec and settings.
Thanks for the tip on the Automatic Ducks plugin, I'll look into it, does it work both ways? ie. Once imported to AE, can I get it back into my FCP timeline in it's native format without rendering out?

Thanks in advance!!
:)


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adam taylorRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 1:34:58 pm

hunh? a bit depth of 84,000 - what on earth are you talking about?

8 bit, 6 bit and 32 bit are the possible bit depths.

Is it a single shot you are working on, or an edited section comprising many different shots that you want to work on in AE?

Automatic Duck can be quite expensive, and its not really necessary. I used to get around it by exporting each shot from the edit separately, then importing them into AE and reconstructing the edit manually. Not too painful on a short sequence.

If its a single shot, then you probably do not need to bother with all the "round trip" stuff.
Safest way (ie - so it does not risk spoiling your original) is to export the shot from FCP - giving it a new name.
Import that single file into AE.
Set your Composition settings to whatever is appropriate for you.....and do your stuff.
Then when you are ready to finish in AE, click Composition/Add to Render Queue.
Open the Render Queue and where it says Output Module Click on the right hand arrow to open the drop down which should have various otput formats. You won't see ProRes 422 LT so go to the bottom and click Custom.
This opens a new window - check that format is Quicktime, then in the Video Output section click the Format Options button and select Prores422 LT.
Then in the Stretch section, use the drop down selector to pick the relevant output format (ie The size you want the finished render to be.
Hit OK, then if you want to name the file click the Output To option and you can do justthat (and select where you want to save it to).
Give that a go...

You have to render the shot in AE - its simply not possible to send an un-rendered effect to another application and hope it will render for you. You wouldn't go to a restaurant to get a chef to prepare your meal, only to take it home to cook yourself would you?

adam

Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

http://www.sculptedbliss.co.uk


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Steve RobertsRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 1:35:14 pm

Do you get a Quicktime movie?
If so, what is the codec according to Get Info on the file?
If not, what do you get?

Where do you see "APCS"?
How do you get this information?
In which app are you viewing this file and see "apcs"?

Regarding the Duck, I haven't used it in a long time, but if I recall, it's only one-way: FCP to AE.
And I think you can only roundtrip Apple to Apple, Adobe to Adobe.




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adam taylorRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 1:40:20 pm

my apologies...Steve is right. Automatic Duck is a one way solution.

adam

Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

http://www.sculptedbliss.co.uk


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Chaz WrenRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 2:14:39 pm

Yep, I render it as a Quicktime movie and in the 'get info' section the codec shows up as 'apcs'.

"hunh? a bit depth of 84,000 - what on earth are you talking about?"
My mistake, I believe it was 'Total Bit Rate' that showed the 14,000 - 84,000 difference.

I changed all of the appropriate settings in the Output Module to exactly match the original and my timeline, still end up with a file that (when inspected via the 'get info') shows up as 'apcs' codec, no sign of ProRes 422(LT) as it was originally :( Feel like I'm smacking my head against brick wall tbh. If Keylight wasn't so impressive I'd have given up long ago :)

All i want is to take my clean key from Keylight and to carry on editing in FCP, this shouldn't be so hard surely? Am I missing something? Screenshots of settings used will follow later if any use?

"You have to render the shot in AE - its simply not possible to send an un-rendered effect to another application and hope it will render for you. You wouldn't go to a restaurant to get a chef to prepare your meal, only to take it home to cook yourself would you?"
Nice metaphor btw :P

(Thanks for all responses so far, result or no result, it's great to get feedback!)


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adam taylorRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 2:23:43 pm

ahh - now it becomes a little clearer !

"All i want is to take my clean key from Keylight and to carry on editing in FCP, this shouldn't be so hard surely? "

Are you saying that you have keyed out something, and want to render out a video with an alpha channel so you can overlay that in FCP?
If so, then thats something very different from your initial description.

You can only render out video with an alpha channel using a few codecs...Animation & ProRes 4444 are the two most used ones. You can also use .tga image sequences. All will require some kind of rendering in your video app.


Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

http://www.sculptedbliss.co.uk


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Chaz WrenRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 5:00:24 pm

Excellent, that's very interesting indeed.
"Are you saying that you have keyed out something, and want to render out a video with an alpha channel so you can overlay that in FCP?"
Yes, that's exactly it :) Sorry if I did a toss job of initially explaining, wasn't intended in any way.

Now regarding the keyed footage in AE, as mentioned whenever I render the footage it shows in the 'get info' window as being apcs regardless of me choosing ProRes 422(LT). Is this likely to be the same story if I choose ProRes 4444? If so, does it matter or is it just a file quirk?
I really could do with all footage ending up as 422(LT) to match my sequence, will 422(LT) lend itself for alpha channel exporting? If 4444 works better then perhaps I'll render as 4444 and then send it straight to Compressor to use the same 422(LT) droplet I initially converted my footage with? Now, finally, I feel a viable solution is in sight!! lol.

Thanks again for your advice, it's much appreciated!


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adam taylorRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 5:11:00 pm

personally, i would stick to using the Animation codec. Prores 4444 is intended for much higher data rates than LT. Animation is a lossless codec so whatever frame size you set, is what you get. Just make sure you set the composition size and aspect ratios to match the LT frame size, and do the same when you set your output options.

I cannot say what problem you are having with your file names - i've never seen that one before.

As for wanting a completely prores lt timeline...tough! That codec does not support the alpha channel that you require. So use Animation within FCP. Then you will be able to use the alpha channel. You will need to render to play back a composite shot within FCP but that is not a major problem. Just how it is.

Putting the file into compressor to make an LT version will not solve your problem, as LT will not contain the alpha channel. The alpha channel is an 8 bit greyscale channel, which FCP uses to calculate which parts of the frame are opaque, which transparent and which are in between.

Without that channel, your video will appear with a black (or whatever colour you rendered it with) fill wherever you had transparency.

rgds
Adam


Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

http://www.sculptedbliss.co.uk


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Steve RobertsRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 15, 2010 at 3:59:10 pm

Try rendering just the alpha (set in the output module) of the keyed movie in AE. If you can't render that to the ProRes codec, then render to Animation (alpha only). Open that in Quicktime and export to ProRes.

Then use that grayscale alpha movie as a track matte for your original footage in FCP.

However, if you've done spill suppression in Keylight (affected the talent), then you should also render the RGB to the Animation codec. That means make two Output Modules: one for RGB and one for Alpha, both to the Animation codec.



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Lothar WielandRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Aug 11, 2014 at 1:55:28 pm

Hi, I've tried your post and i have the same problem with Apple Prores. I do not find this option in the format options. I just had the choice first to choose f.e. quicktime and then under format option i miss this prores 422. Using lastest version of AE CC.


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adam taylorRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 14, 2010 at 9:36:51 am

i think you're confused - you can round trip between AE and Premiere (they are both Adobe products). If you want to round trip with FCP then you need to use Automatic Ducks plug-ins. There may also be other methods, but i l know the duck is a reliable one.

You need to set your desired output format in the Output section of the Render Queue.

Adam Taylor
Video Editor/Audio Mixer/ Compositor/Motion GFX/Barista
Character Options Ltd
Oldham, UK

http://www.sculptedbliss.co.uk


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Eric KirkRe: Rendering ProRes 422(LT) from AE possible?
by on Jan 5, 2013 at 11:06:59 pm

All,

I see this is a couple years old now so can someone just help me to ensure I am actually rendering ProRes 422(LT)?

This string tells me to select lossless, then quicktime, and under format, select ProRess 422LT. I do not see that option however.

The closest I see is: Uncompress YUV 8 bit 4:2:2

Is this the same thing and if not, can you help me?

Thanks.
Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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