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Export improt settings from AE to Avid Liquid

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Derek LangfordExport improt settings from AE to Avid Liquid
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 11:15:52 am

Hi!

I am atempting to produce some graphics from within Adobie AE CS3 then export them into Liquid 7.2 Pro.PAL

Where I am able to import the finished graphics when loaded onto the timeline the graphic only fills part of the screen as if the graphics is incorrectly set up in AE I have tryed a number of the options when setting up the composition settings and also again several options on the Export settings all with varing degrees of success but still with the overall result of a smaller graphic than required being seen on the Liquid timeline.

I am sure that AE will handle the files and given the correct settings will deliver to Liquid.

Within Liquid the timeline properties that I am importing onto are as follows

Preset - HDV 1080/50i (1440x1080 16x9)
Frame rate - 25
Resolution - 1920 x 1080 ( square / non square (Ihave tried both!!)

Interlacing - Top field first
FX quality - Low Quality
Desired media quality - Normal
Render / fuse codec - MEG-2@HL(M2V)


Please help with both composition and export seting that I should be using or alternatively the timeline settings for Liquid that are compatable with both the video media and the AE graphics as I have spent a lot of time getting nowhere!!


Regards



RDL


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Dave LaRondeRe: Export improt settings from AE to Avid Liquid
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 2:16:29 pm

[Derek Langford] "Preset - HDV 1080/50i (1440x1080 16x9) "

Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, mp4, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


[Derek Langford] "Render / fuse codec - MEG-2@HL(M2V) "

Dave's Stock Answer #3:

Don't use AE to compress files for final delivery. The various compressors are there only to make quick 'n dirty files showing a project's progress to producers, clients, the kids, etc. AE is incapable of doing multipass encoding, a crucial feature that greatly improves the image quality of H.264 and MPEG-type files in particular.

Render a high-quality file from AE, and use a different application to do the compression. Popular ones are Adobe Media Encoder, Sorenson Squeeze and Apple's Compressor, which comes bundled with Final Cut Suite. Even compressing in Quicktime Pro is better than compressing in AE.

Making good-looking compressed files is almost as much an art as it is a science. It is NOT straightforward at all. I recommend asking a few questions at the COW's Compression Techniques forum.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Joe MoyaRe: Export improt settings from AE to Avid Liquid
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 8:55:20 pm

I am not at my computer... so, I am working from memory... bear with me.

Where I am able to import the finished graphics when loaded onto the timeline the graphic only fills part of the screen as if the graphics is incorrectly set up in AE I have tryed a number of the options when setting up the composition settings and also again several options on the Export settings all with varing degrees of success but still with the overall result of a smaller graphic than required being seen on the Liquid timeline.

I noticed you are using 16:9 as your size setup... this might be the problem... Check the property settings for the video clip transferred into Liquid. Are the setting for the clip and/or entire project in Liquid 16.9 with 1.33.

A lot of times AE exported file gets convert to a 1.0 square pixel frm the 1.33 pixel format. All you have to do is change from the drop down menu that appears in Liquids Video Clip menu (not in AE)... you will find this drop down menu if you right click on the imported clip icon or clip dropped into a track.

Also, in Liquid... how is the video clip settings set for proportions and scaling. In liquid, you have a simple drop down menu that lets you pick your scaling options. This is a great little solution that AE doesn't have. As a result, a lot of the short comings of AE can be easily overcome by Liquid if you just know where to look.

Next, what are your Liquid setting for you entire project? Sometimes those working in native file formats that don't jive well with AE. In general, the best native format is the YUV file format if you are working in HD (not MPEG2 m2v). Liquid does a Fabulous job of rendering and smoothly using HD files and is a dream to use compared to After Effects or Premiere Pro. In fact, in the YUV format, there is NO rendering required in Liquid...it works natively... and takes 4:2:0 and converts it to 4:2:2 like Cineform (but is a freebe). Without knowing what is composited, this native yuv and 4:2:2 bonus may be advantages (or not).

If that is not the problem... then it could be how it is being exported from AE. In AE, make sure the setting of the frame size matches Liquids for best quality conversion. If you are using 1440x1080 in Liquid, then use the same in the AE compositon for best results. If not, then you will want to use Liquids resizing of the video clip scale in Liquid as your best option for making the video clip scaling size work between the two applications. However, doing this may result in loss of clarity and quality of the video.

The best generic export file type is AVI uncompressed windows media. For HD it is very slow to render in AE... but, it definately yields the best results and works natively in Liquid. The second best choice is Quicktime MOV uncompressed (not animation). These typically yield the best level of quality and have the least amount of trouble when it comes to complex AE composites. Oh... and, no OpenGL will also show best results and most stable render... but, without OpenGL the render time can be glacial. I would try with and without OpenGL...if you get the same results go with OpenGL to speed up render time.

The basic strategy to solving this problem is setting up the correct Liquids settings first... then, exporting from AE in a format that matches. Based on your post, I think you have a little bit of a problem on both sides of the equation - AE and Liquid. Which makes it pretty difficult to find the right combination of export and export.

There are tons of variation of options... but, I am not at my computer at this time and can't look up some notes I keep with regard to AE to Liquid renders/transfers. If you could post a pic of how the import into Liquid looks, that would be VERY helpful.





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Derek LangfordRe: Export improt settings from AE to Avid Liquid
by on Jan 8, 2010 at 12:04:56 pm

Dear Joe

Just what I wanted, I imported the graphic into liquid then as you said I played arround with the Liquid Video Clip menu while the clip was on the timeline and after a few attempts I found the mix if scaling and pixel aspect that worked for the clip and it now fits perfectly.

For others that may have the same issue or are reading these posts, from the settings that I used from AE the file was imported as a M2V mpeg-2 file into Liquid then using the video clip dropdown menu as Joe described the settings that I finally used were as follows

Scaling Fix X keep aspect
Pixel aspect SQUARE 1:1

The result was that a small imported image from AE now fills the screen!!


Joe again great info with a great result MANY THANKS !!!


RDL



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Joe MoyaRe: Export improt settings from AE to Avid Liquid
by on Jan 8, 2010 at 4:41:38 pm

Glad I could help...

... I don't know what your original footage is... but, if it is coming from a m2t or m2v type codec... you might try and change the project/template settings (I think it called that)to where the project in Liquid is read as a YUV file.

What will happen is that no yellow bar (or slices in Liquid language) will appear and require a render to green. Instead, it will show as gray (i.e., indicating it is operating as a native format)... this means you don't even need to render the video file. The only portions that will need to be rendered is any portions of the video you add an effect/filter. And, this rendering runs in the background all the time while you edit AND automatically saves any changes you make every 1/20th of a second... you can NEVER loose any work. Those two things can be a huge time saver for long editing projects.

Liquid is (for the price) one of the best editing software there is... to bad it is End of Line application... but, AVID plans on introducing an entirely new Liquid. If so, they have really big shoes to fill if they plan on trying to match what Liquid has done for about 5 plus years...many editing programs have only in the past 1 or 2 been able to match anything close to what Liquid has been doing for over half a decade (...and, none have been able to match the autosave Liquid uses)... and, doing it on a super stable platform and about 33% of the cost of AVID's MC...it's no wonder AVID bought it out. If you can't beat your competition... buy them out... then, (as I predict) will re-release it as a new dumbed down version at a much higher cost.


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Derek LangfordRe: Export improt settings from AE to Avid Liquid
by on Jan 8, 2010 at 5:10:23 pm

Joe

Thanks again and will look into the additional information for future use !!

I also agree with your comments re Avid and purchasing Liquid / Pinnacle and the future development in that area!!

Best wishes


RDL


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