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keyframes independent of the timeline?

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Richie Tovellkeyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 3:56:49 am

I don't know how to do this, I'd like to plot out some keyframes that are controlling rotation and scale of a 3d layer, and then interpolate my layer between them using a slider, is this possible?

Am I being clear enough? I'll put it another way, I'd like to first plot out some rotation and scale keyframes on one of my layers at two point's in the comp timeline, Then link these to a slider that will adjust my layer's rotation and scale according to these keyframes, interpolating between the two keyfames (independently) of the timeline so the keyframes themselves have no direct effect on the footage.

I think my first explanation worked better.

EDD: So basically this would allow me to control large amounts of complex (keyframed) 3d layer movements, including those layers that are following exponentially curved paths etc, using a relatively simple single slider, are you with me? Can that be done?

I've seen this done in trapcode 3d stroke, except it was using mask shape paths which were keyframed, but I don't know if there's a way to do this with standard transform controls, nor do I know of any plugins that could do the trick either, so I thought I'd ask you guys.



Coda - musical selections; in film, the ending or last section of a film (often wordless).


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Richie TovellRe: keyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 5:14:32 pm

Hello, is anybody there? :)

Coda - [i]musical selections; in film, the ending or last section of a film (often wordless).[/i]


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Dave LaRondeRe: keyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 5:33:31 pm

It sounds like you want to control the speed of a Behavior, like you can in Apple's Motion.

In Motion, Behaviors are as easy to make as a peanut butter sandwich. Not so in AE.

If Adobe's feeling the heat from Apple Motion, perhaps they may add that particular feature in a future version. But then, I have no access to a crystal ball.

Personally, I'd prefer if the Adobe coders were able to get what's already there to work properly. Things like providing no bull**it, no-fine-print-or-disclaimers-needed support for compressed audio, temporally-compressed video and Open GL.

However, adding Behaviors to AE's capabilities is sexy, and my wishes are merely practical. Sadly, I think sexy, shiny and sparkly will win out over practical.

Okay, I'm off my soap box.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Richie TovellRe: keyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 6:20:50 pm

eloquently put sir, btw I don't know if I'm just the odd one out here, but since my latest PC upgrades, I've had no problems at all using open GL, My graphics cards do support open GL and quite well it appears, just thought I'd mention it as I know it's a bit of a gripe of yours Dave, however I have to say I agree with you on all your point's and it's obvious open GL causes a great deal of contention with a lot of AE users.

Though I don't know motion at all, I think I get what your saying, perhaps if I outlined the project a little you might be able to see something by way of a solution that I can't.

At it's simplest, I'm using trapcode sound keys to rotate a layer, but the rotation trapcode creates is constant, ie the layer it controls turns at the same speed all the way through it's rotation, when the audio peak in sound keys hit's 0db the rotating layer moves to it's furthest point, when the peaks in sound key's drop to their minimum the rotating layer retuns to it's starting point, all well and good, the problem I have is that I need the rotation to be exponentially scaled, ie so it will travel at different speeds through out it's rotation at first starting slowly then increasing rapidly as if this path was marked out with a bezier graph and sound key's was just telling the layer how far along this bezier path to move. If I was using keyframed movement instead of animated movement and sound keys, I could adjust the bezier curve in the keyframes in graph editor to rotate the layer as I liked, but I'm not I'm using soundkeys, so the rotation of the layer is controlled by soundkeys, not keyframes on the timeline.

This problem has been plaguing me for too many months now, I need any ideas at all.

I though perhaps inserting an expression slider might help me bridg the gap, but I'm getting nowhere.


Coda - [i]musical selections; in film, the ending or last section of a film (often wordless).[/i]


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Dave LaRondeRe: keyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 6:35:34 pm

If it were me, I'd find Soundkeys -- however cool -- too confining. I'd probably opt for a cruder way of doing it.

Spinning this layer to the beat? Put the music in an editing application. Cut alternating black & white layers to the beat. Export a tiny, for-reference-only movie with sound. Make it the top layer in the comp. Now you can always see where the beat is.

Now, through the use of bezier keyframes, hold keyframes and such, you can spin that layer as much as you wish, use the graph editor, pause the spinning... all that stuff. When don, turn off that reference layer or remove it altogether from the comp.

It's not sophisticated. In fact, it's crude. There are no fancy expressions or scripts. There are no gee-whiz third-party plugins. It involves hours of work. It just WORKS, and it won't take months to see it through.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Richie TovellRe: keyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 7:11:07 pm

I like your thinking, this may be my only option, though it would be difficult, it might be easier than trying to automate it. I've uploaded a project, I think it would help if you saw what I was going for, it's easier than my explaining, the layers as you will see are parented and rotate/expand exponentially (this is only a rough at this stage and it needs a lot more tweaking to look good) once I've figured out a way over this sound key's linking problem the shape will be pre comped, the idea being that footage and beats can simply then be dropped on to the layers and the footage will distort to this shape.

The problem is as you already know is sound keys/exponential curves, the end result I'm looking for is that as the beat in the comp plays, I want it to effect the layer so this shape (gradually) appears, I could do this as you've suggested by manually placing the keyframes, it's not impossible to do that, but perhaps there would be a more time saving way, I don't know.

Here is the project at it's simplest.

460_shape1.aep.zip

Coda - [i]musical selections; in film, the ending or last section of a film (often wordless).[/i]


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Dave LaRondeRe: keyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 7:23:47 pm

Sorry, I won't be able to look at the project. I don't have Sound keys, either at work where I run AE8 or at home where I run AE9.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Richie TovellRe: keyframes independent of the timeline?
by on Jan 7, 2010 at 7:41:37 pm

There's no sound keys in the project, or footage it's just shape layers at the moment.

Coda - [i]musical selections; in film, the ending or last section of a film (often wordless).[/i]


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