ADOBE AFTER EFFECTS: Forum Expressions Tutorials Creative Cloud

DV Cam novice

COW Forums : Adobe After Effects

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Graham QuinceDV Cam novice
by on Nov 9, 2009 at 6:02:37 pm

Hi guys,

I know I@m posting this in the After Effects forum, but the camera is to use with AE so:

I've an opportunity coming up to pick up a second hand DV Cam at auction for the he school I work at. I'm interested because I've heard that DV Cam is better for chromakey than MiniDV.

If I was to get a DV Cam, what would I need to digitise the footage? I'm guessing firewire ruins the compression. As do miniDV tapes? Or is it a case of recording onto DVCam tapes, then digitising through firewire?

This camera would be for school resources (web video), so it's more about making my job easier (as in not struggling with miniDV keys - 3CCD admittedly) rather than producing broadcast video. Is second hand auctioned DV Cam the way to go and how much should I think about paying?

Graham

PS there's lots of cameras in the auction,Sony DXE-D35P, Sony Mini DV PD150, Sony DSR-300

http://www.YouTube.com/ShiveringCactus - Free FX for amateur films


Return to posts index

Dave JohnsonRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 9, 2009 at 9:24:06 pm

DV-Cam is in fact better than mini-DV, but I doubt you'll see a noticeable difference ... especially when the output is web video.

I used DSR-500s & DSR-300s a lot for about 4 years in the late 90s and early 00s ... they were both great cams then, but its important to note that they're both quite old models at this point. And, more importantly, both the DV-Cam and mini-DV formats are phasing out. In other words, I don't know off-hand how much either cam would sell for today (although quick searches of Google & eBay can easily tell you going rates), but I doubt it's significantly less than the current "prosumer" cams are selling for.

And, no, digitizing via Firewire doesn't degrade the footage. DV-Cam and mini-DV are pretty similar so however you're working with your mini-DV footage now will work with DV-Cam too.


Return to posts index

Dave LaRondeRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 9, 2009 at 10:51:57 pm

Like French food? If so, I can expand on Dave's wise comments with an analogy.

For chroma keying purposes, DVCam is to Mini DV as a four-day-old baguette is to a week-old baguette.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index


David JohnsonRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 10, 2009 at 1:02:08 am

Is that a work-week or calendar-week old baguette, Dave?

I think I actually frequent the COW as much for comic relief as knowledge these days ... that special brand of humor is hard to find!


Return to posts index

Dean SensuiRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 10, 2009 at 5:59:52 am

Graham...

DV and DVCam both share the same color space, 4:1:1. They're also non-square pixels. And, sadly, neither provides a very nice key because there's often some serious aliasing taking place in the green channel which defines the key itself.

While having better optics are a big help, the chroma channel is where you really want some seriously good definition. It's the chroma channel (chroma key) that will determine how clean your keying will be.

I've keyed 4:2:2 standard definition (DVCPro format) with nice results. I've struggled with 4:1:1 standard definition (DV and DVCam) and barely got acceptable results.

On the other end of the spectrum I've had great results with HD (DVCPro HD and XDCam EX) in both 4:2:2 and 4:2:0, and, of course, outstanding results with 4k RED.

I wouldn't recommend DVCam or DV if you want to get a good key. So much work goes into setting up a green screen set that it would be a shame to shortchange yourself in the critical step of recording it to a good format.

Shoot it with a Panasonic HVX-200 or Sony EX1 and you'll be a lot more satisfied with the results.

Dean Sensui -- Hawaii Goes Fishing


Return to posts index

Graham QuinceRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 10, 2009 at 9:06:20 am

If only this was a forum for teenages I'd post 'ROFL' or 'LOL', but as I'm not a 14-year-old girl, I'll just say thanks Dave, your analogy not only made perfect sense but raised a laugh first thing this morning.

After posting my question last night I spent a huge amount of time (time I should have spent beforehand) reading up on 4:1:1, 4:2:2 and the like and with the budgets I'm dealing with, I'm pleased with all the equipment decisions I've made up to now.

Thank you Dave, David and Dean, your advice has helped clarify my decision making: "If I can't get a perfect key from the sort of cameras I have the budget for, how much am I prepared to spend on a camera/sandwich that's slightly better/fresher?"

Graham

http://www.YouTube.com/ShiveringCactus - Free FX for amateur films


Return to posts index


Walter SoykaRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 10, 2009 at 1:52:16 pm

[Graham Quince] "I've heard that DV Cam is better for chromakey than MiniDV. "

I know you've already resolved your question, but to clarify, the difference between DVCAM and MiniDV is the track pitch on tape; DVCAM increases robustness and sacrifices tape length compared to MiniDV. The color space, compression, and data stream are otherwise the same.

In other words, DVCAM and MiniDV are equally unsuited to chromakeying.

The DVCAM format does reduce the likelihood of dropouts, though. Also, DVCAM camcorders, geared more towards professionals, tended to have better sensors and optics, so they produced marginally cleaner images.

Walter Soyka, Principal
Keen Live, Inc.
Presentation, Motion Graphics & Widescreen Design
RenderBreak: A Blog on Innovation in Production



Return to posts index

Graham QuinceRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 10, 2009 at 1:59:50 pm

Thanks Walter, extra information is always welcome. I think because of the more professional nature of the camera we'll try to pick one up at this auction. If they go beyond what we're happy to pay, I won't be too upset, but it was good to get a realistic idea from everybody about what to expect in terms of quality.

Really I'm holding out for the one-button push camera that automatically matches lighting to the virtual background, records with no grain, steadies itself, tracks itself in 3D and automatically removes a chroma background for me. They exist right? Oh yeah and they need a script editing module. :)

Graham

http://www.YouTube.com/ShiveringCactus - Free FX for amateur films


Return to posts index

Walter SoykaRe: DV Cam novice
by on Nov 10, 2009 at 2:14:36 pm

Let me know when the stereoscopic option comes out for that, and I'll pick up a couple myself!

Walter Soyka, Principal
Keen Live, Inc.
Presentation, Motion Graphics & Widescreen Design
RenderBreak: A Blog on Innovation in Production



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]