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Bevel and Emboss causing problem...

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Jeremy KempBevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 24, 2009 at 8:29:24 am

I have am creating concrete pillars that are 3-dimensional. I want to put video clips on the pillars, like artwork in a gallery and have a camera move around the room showing different video clips. When I apply a bevel and emboss layer style to the video clips, the video becomes visible on the backside of my pillar. I have all my pillar sides precomposed. I have tried precomposing my video clip and applying the layer style in the precomp, but no luck. Anyone have any experience with this?

When I turn off "Collapse Transformations/Continuous Rast." it fixes it....but then of course I have distortion issues.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 24, 2009 at 4:00:54 pm

Prerender the video clips with the effects applied.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jeremy KempRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 24, 2009 at 8:01:19 pm

That works, except then in order to have a clear image in my main comp, I have to turn on "continuous rast" which then causes the image to be seen on the other side again.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 24, 2009 at 9:18:11 pm

What?
  • You put the footage in a comp.
  • You add your bevels, etc to the footage in that comp.
  • You render & import into AE.
  • You use the rendered footage in your fancy 3D comp to replace the precomps already there.

Why would that footage then require continuous rasterization?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jeremy KempRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 24, 2009 at 10:17:43 pm

I'm sorry Dave, I misread your previous thread. I thought you said "precompose" when what yoiu said was "pre-render."

My Bad.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 24, 2009 at 10:29:02 pm

No problem. Glad we're both now on the same page, and you can see your comp work as you envisioned it.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jeremy KempRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 12:17:12 am

One more question...

The video clip I am having to pre-render is 263 MB...when I add the Bevel and Emboss and pre-render it, it takes up an enormous about of space. Can you recommend the best output settings...(Best Compression settings with RGB+Alpha). The original clip is 1280X720 and was exported from Final cut using the H264 Compressor. I added a drop shadow as well as the Bevel to the clip in AE...I am assuming that I need to shrink it down a bit before I pre-render so that the drop shadow is visible on the prerendered clip. Which means I will need the clear alpha, correct?


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Jeremy KempRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 2:06:32 am

Ugh, the same issue occurs with text and graphics...am I really going to have to prerender all my text for this to work? Seems like a pretty big glitch in AE.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:05:56 pm

[Jeremy Kemp] "...when I add the Bevel and Emboss and pre-render it, it takes up an enormous about of space.... The original clip is 1280X720 and was exported from Final cut using the >H264 Compressor.... Ugh, the same issue occurs with text and graphics..."

Sorry, but when you live in AE-Land, you'd better get used to really BIG file sizes. That's just the way it is. Get more storage if you have to. I'm not kidding.

Normally, you DO NOT want to compromise quality when you prerender an intermediate file, because it will come back to bite you at the end of the project. So what to use to maintain quality? I like Quicktime's animation codec set to best quality because it's lossless. If your prerendered footage contains a lot of detail in the picture, you should also look at the PNG codec. I'm not talking about a PNG sequence, I'm talking about a Quicktime movie in PNG compression. If you have QT 6+, you'll find the codec.

When the time comes to render out the completed project for use in FCP, render using the codec of your FCP edit timeline.

You don't know it, but you unwittingly revealed a big reason you're having fits... it's the footage you're using in AE: H.264. You did it because large file sizes make you uncomfy. Get over it. If this footage was originally in something like DVCPro HD to begin with, USE IT. Why? Here's the straight skinny on H.264 & AE:

Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, mp4, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.


Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jeremy KempRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 7:36:27 pm

Dave,

Thanks so much for your honest answers. Your wisdom is appreciated. I only hope that after years of experience I will have the same knowledge.

I have my master HD clip I can use instead of the H264. I don't necessarily have issues with large file sizes. I use H264 when uploading videos in HD to vimeo. I used the H264 in AE because I thought using the uncompressed HD clip would slow AE down.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 8:03:47 pm

[Jeremy Kemp] "I thought using the uncompressed HD clip would slow AE down."

Au contraire! Long-gop codecs like H.264 slow AE down. AE works best with as little compression as possible.

And when you're all done, render high-quality out of AE, and let something else do the conversion to H.264. AE can't do multipass encoding, which REALLY improves quality without the big hit in file size. If you're a Mac guy with FCP, try Compressor.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jeremy KempRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 9:55:21 pm

This is amazing new info to me...can't thank you enough...any idea about the text thing? Do I have to pre-render my text layers like I did my video or would it be better to just create text in Illustrator and import?


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Dave LaRondeRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 10:32:43 pm

Try converting the footage first and see what happens.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jeremy KempRe: Bevel and Emboss causing problem...
by on Sep 25, 2009 at 11:56:50 pm

Pre-rendering the footage with the Bevel and Emboss layer style solves the problem for the video layer. I have tried this and know it to be true. If by "convert the video and see what happens" you mean see if this keeps you from having to pre-render your bevel and emboss(?), then no...I still have to pre-render for it to work.

My separate text layers in my comps have the same issue as my video layers did (becoming visible on the reverse side of my 3d pillar objects).

I was under the impression that our previous talks about H264 videos were only regarding files sizes/performance/quality of the final product.


Is there something you have been trying to tell me that I am not understanding?


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