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Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render

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Nick Pitcavage
Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 7:11:37 pm

I am having this issue with After Effects, using:
1080
29.97
Progressive
When I render the file, I use PhotoJpg at 50%

I have about 200 photos moving from right to left, going with the lyrics of a song, during the verse. There are also rays in the background with the "Shine" effect on them playing through out the entire composition.

There are particles during the chorus only, and text masked on during the chorus only. The particles, text and rays play fine, with no glitches or jitters, but as soon as I render the photos with the composition, it jumps, stutters and jitters.

Does anyone have a work-around to this problem?

I am trying various codecs and settings today to try to fix this issue.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 7:39:55 pm

I'd personally use Photo JPEG at 95%-100%... far better quality.

If you see this problem ONLY when you look at the rendered file, turn off Open GL for rendering. For rendering in AE, Open GL is about as useful as a squirt gun at a refinery fire. Even the guys at Adobe turn off Open GL when they render... which should give you some clue about its usefulness.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Steve Roberts
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 7:48:10 pm

Uh oh. Did you try searching the COW for "judder"?

The problem may be the optical illusion of regular-shaped objects moving across the screen at a regular rate.

Anyway, try the search.



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Nick Pitcavage
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 8:31:31 pm

Thanks Dave and Steve, I've been researching this all day, and did come across the "judder" info. I am just now getting into that.

Is there a "quick an easy" to make the objects seem smooth (to combat the judder)?

I usually use PhotoJpg at about 65%. My final output is to a projector in an auditorium, so, quality is important, but the screens are a little more forgiving than LCD or Plasma.





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Dave LaRonde
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 8:53:24 pm

[Nick Pitcavage] "Is there a "quick an easy" to make the objects seem smooth (to combat the judder)? "

Sadly, it ain't that easy. It's a function of both horizontal motion and frame rate. You have to experiment.


If you have an application to compress files other than AE, I recommend using it. AE isn't the best at compression. It also depends on how you play back the files. For example: if you play back on DVD, it HAS to be MPEG2 compression... and it's best to let AE make a high-quality file, and let the DVD authoring application (or dedicated compression software) make the audio file and an MPEG2 video file.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Nick Pitcavage
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 9:24:16 pm

I see, so it comes down to finding a speed for the horizontal animation, that looks smooth on playback?

My final output is on projector screens, via Pro Video Player, Pro Video Sync and a Spyder system. The software bundle handles .mov files and allows you to play them on a "playlist" and it allows you to arrange video creatively on multiple screens.

http://vistasystems.net/product_tour.asp
http://www.renewedvision.com/pvs.php

I'm going to keep researching on this and try to find a solution.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 9:31:30 pm

Don't forget that judder is function of both horizontal motion and FRAME RATE.

For example, if you chose 23.976 'cause it's just too cool to ignore, or you chose to do progressive rather than interlaced for the same reason, you'll pay the price in the degrees of freedom you get in your horizontal motion.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Nick Pitcavage
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 9, 2009 at 9:55:59 pm

I am using 29.97 Progressive because that is the frame rate of the EX cams we shoot with.

Maybe I am doing something wrong when I export interlaced renders, but it is always glaringly obvious that the frames are interlaced.

I am currently exporting a version with motion blur to see if that helps at all.



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Steve Roberts
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 10, 2009 at 12:15:51 am

Does the client notice the judder?

... with interlacing, there's one way to do it right (no scaling, correct field order, proper frame size, proper frame rate) and, I suppose, four ways to do it wrong:
-scale after interlacing (get lines of varying thickness)
- wrong field order (test in AE by opt-clicking in Proj window, then viewing with PageDn key -- shouldn't jump back & forth)
- wrong frame size (should be 720x486 non-square PAR, 1020x1080, square PAR)
- wrong frame rate (should be 29.97 for NTSC)

If they look obviously interlaced to you, maybe you just have a really good eye. :-) Or maybe you're not viewing it on an interlaced monitor? The latter would show a freeze-frame as a flicker, while a computer monitor would show it as "comb" lines (in AE, you'd only see them if you didn't separate fields on import).

Does that help?



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Nick Pitcavage
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 10, 2009 at 4:28:40 pm

ya, it helps. the reason I see the interlacing is because I have 1080 LCD monitors. I am not sure how obvious the interlacing would be on the projector screens, projecting through HD projectors, but maybe that will be the next test.

I can illuminate the scaling of the media, and frame rate for sure. But the frame size...? I am using 1920 X 1080.

I will check the field order.



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Steve Roberts
Re: Jumpy, Stuttery Playback on Timeline and in .mov Render
on Sep 10, 2009 at 9:56:55 pm

Sorry -- you have the right frame size at 1920x1080. Mine was a typo.



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