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Not enought memory to create kronos image??

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Dale PaquetteNot enought memory to create kronos image??
by on Sep 5, 2009 at 7:47:16 pm

I have been attempting to time stretch some footage 200% and then to render using frame blending (high qual). Also tried a version with time remapping with a comparable stretch. So far, it hasn't worked. It seems I get through about half of the footage then the render fails with the message AE: not enough memory to create Kronos image. Near as I can determine this has something to do with the "Kronos" plug-in that does the frame blending. Render details says I have 350G memory available against an estimated file size of 18G. Same results regardless of the output module. No other programs running except the usual background stuff (could this be the problem?). Running Win XP w/4G RAM, Gforce 8800GT, tried with and without OpenGL. Source footage is HDV 1440 X 1080p30 in a 1920 X 1080 comp with sound. Any thoughts - why and how to work around? Thanks.

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Kevin CampRe: Not enought memory to create kronos image??
by on Sep 6, 2009 at 12:35:57 am

i would try converting the hdv footage to uncompressed avi or lossless mov if you have the drive space. if you don't, i would try quicktime photo-jpeg, avid's dnxhd (free download from avid) or even dvcprohd.

any of those codecs won't use temporal compression (which hdv does) and that is probably what is giving you problems.

another thin i would do if you haven't already, is to disable multiprocessing (preferences>multiprocessing, uncheck theoption to render multilpe frames simultaneously). with mp on and only 4gb of ram, it's possible that you're causing some memory issues.

a few other things you could try... if you only have an internal drive(s) for os, applications and media, disable the ae's disk cache. if you have an external drive for media, set the disk cache to use an internal drive. i would also keep the ram cache settings close to the defaults. if needed, you can rest the preference file by holding down alt-ctrl-shift while starting up ae.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer

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Dale PaquetteRe: Not enought memory to create kronos image??
by on Sep 6, 2009 at 1:38:02 pm

Kevin, I tried the first of your suggestions and managed the render and output w/o "too little" memory. Actually used AE itself to decompress, then imported the decompressed footage which I subsequently time stretched and output. Thanks.

This does lead to 2 more questions if you don't mind. First, in looking at the render info as it progresses, I'm seeing that AE uses an continually increasing percentage of 2G of RAM. I eventually reached 75% and I suspect if the footage had been longer I could have used all of it. Why is this RAM being used for other than manipulating each frame? The final rendered frames go to the hard disk. Second, I'm trying to understand the memory requirements to update the comp display during the process. Seems I should be able to free up some if I could "turn off" the comp display but I don't know and wouldn't know how to do it if I wanted to!! Any thoughts on these? Thanks again, I'm already way ahead. Dale

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Kevin CampRe: Not enought memory to create kronos image??
by on Sep 7, 2009 at 12:54:17 am

[Dale Paquette] "I tried the first of your suggestions and managed the render and output"

great... codecs that use temporal compression (also called interframe compression) like hdv, mpeg-2, mpeg-4 and h.264, to name a few, give ae fits when trying to work with them. this type of compression compares data from one frame to the next and 'removes' the data that doesn't change much. this produces smaller files, but causes ae to have to compare frames to composite each frame prior to doing any other effects/compositing, and that's where the trouble lies... generally, you'll want to avoid these codecs when compositing, in favor of a codec that uses only intraframe compression.

for your other questions...

in the first question i think you are talking about watch the 'ram' value in the render queue, and it's counting up to 75% then holding at that for the rest of the render. that sounds about right, although 75% is a bit high normally it's about 60%. this value is the ram cache, which is just a cache of rendered frames that ae keeps to use for rendering frames that can use previously rendered data.

motion blur would be a good example of how the cahce can help speed up rendering. say you have 16 samples for you mo-blur. if you had no ram cache, every frame would need to be calculated 16x to render one frame. with cached frames, ae can use 15 from the cache and calculate 1x to render the next frame.

the value can be adjsuted in the preferences, it is the max ram cache value. in cs4 it is adjusted by sliding the cache slider between faster and longer previews. by sliding it towards faster, you get a larger ram cache, towards longer previews you get a smaller ram cache. in cs3 and earlier, you set the max ram cache setting manually, but it was advised not to exceed 60-70%.

the rest of the ram is used to hold data that is used to render each frame. you may have heard of the image buffer (or the dreaded image buffer error message), this is one thing that the rest of that ram is used for. it would also need to hold any footage frames/images that you were compositing and any dat that was needed for that compositing (like blur calculations, color corrections, particle calcs, etc.)

so your ram is basically split into to 2 parts for rendering.

for you second question, yes there are some resources that are used to update the preview window as you render. to prevnet this, you can toggle the caps lock on, which prevents update to the preview window. also, if you are using ae7 or later, you can do what i did and set the render queue window to be a tab to the preview window. so when you are in the render queue, the preview is hidden, and thus not updating.

if it is a broadcsast monitor that is updating, you can disable that feature in the video preview settings.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer

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Dale PaquetteRe: Not enought memory to create kronos image??
by on Sep 9, 2009 at 7:55:16 pm

Thanks Kevin, I'm way ahead of where I was. Dale

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Mark PetersenRe: Not enought memory to create kronos image??
by on Aug 14, 2010 at 8:41:13 pm

I'm having the same "Kronos" crash. I'm also time-stretching footage with frame blending (Pixel Motion), from 25 to 30fps, though in my case the source is an image sequence (2k x 2k JPGs), not a compiled movie. And I'm outputting an image frame sequence.

It'll work for a while, but AE crashes every 3000 frames or so. Fortunately, it's an image sequence, so I just set AE to Skip Existing Frames, and start the render up again. Unfortunately, the whole project is some 60,000 frames, so at this rate, I may finish up several days from now.

I'm running a multi-machine render with two machines rendering the frame sequence. One has XP, 4G RAM, the other XP64, 8G RAM; CS3. Both machines crash eventually, at different points. I tried disabling/enabling Disk Cache, no diff.

I ran the same 25->30fps conversion project using After Effects 6.5's old frame blending method, which worked as well as it always did. I thought I would see if CS3's Pixel Motion version of frame blending worked better. It's slower, for sure -- and not just from the crashing.

>> Mark

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