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Glitch loop effect.

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Richie Tovell
Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 8:18:49 am

I don't really know what you guys call this effect, in audio circles it's just called a glitch effect, dubbed "Glitch" after the form of music it's most commonly ascosiated with.

I'd like to recreate this effect in a proffesinal video app, but I'm not sure if AE is right for the job, though it would be great to find a pluggin that can do this kind of stuff I doubt there are any arround yet.

Basically you adjust the start and end point's of a looped clip through various sections, I created the example bellow using two apps, one a live video app the other a daw, the daw sends midi wich controls the start and end points of the loop in the llive video app, but there are problems, midi and midi apps are very prone to latency problems and also to whats known as midi jitter, this results (in this case) in frames dropping out or freezing etc hence my need to find a pro app or plugin that can loop clips (including their audio) in this manner.

Any ideas, I know a ton of you guys on this forum are proffesionals so I'd like to ask you how you'd go about creating this kind of effect Propperly (not like my rough example ;)









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Everett Bowes
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 12:23:50 pm

i think other people should definitely weigh in on this, but I think Final Cut, AE, Premiere, or your other editing app's could do this, but I don't know of any "automatic" way of doing it. It looks like you just need to cut your footage, like you would for any other video, with these jumps (or, "glitches") in mind.

Maybe something to consider would be using After Effects with a plugin from videocopilot.net called "Twitch". It's a great plugin, but I'm not sure you can "twitch" the time remapping field. I'm not saying you can't, just that I'm not sure. You might be able to. But if so, you may not be able to really control the final output of the glitches unless you just cut it (edit it) that way in an editor.

If it were me, I would just cut it in Final Cut Pro. You'll have total control of your final results that way. Others can vote if this is a good idea or not, or, let you know if there's a plugin out there that would make this easier.

Hope that helps!
e~


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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 4:42:12 pm

It'd be pretty much impossible to do all those eddit's manually firstly there's probably 50 or 100 cuts, secondly a big part of the effect is the audio, as the loop point's move closer together the pitch of the audio also (appears) to change though the footage doesn't speed up.

It seems my only option is to create a rough as above then to import it in to AE to replaice dropped frames that there are. I had a look over the glitch plugin that you sugested and it does have time remapping so I'll give it a shot, it sounds pretty intersting.


Don't know if the audio is playing ion the youtube vid so here's the same vid a'la vimeo

lights from ni-cad on Vimeo.



Guy's I really really would like to find a way to do this in AE as I use this technique a lot in music production, now I'm working with visuals as well I was looking forward to achieving the same effect using footage from the samples I use.

If any of you can help or have any more suggestions I'd be really greatfull.


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Joey Burnham
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 8:54:10 pm

[Richie Tovell] "It'd be pretty much impossible to do all those eddit's manually firstly there's probably 50 or 100 cuts,"

Impossible? Not really. It's more of a cut/paste situation in your NLE. All you are doing is looping the footage at a faster and faster rate. The audio is another story. I'm a video editor so I can't tell you how to do it, but I'm sure it's pretty simple in protools or whatever audio app you have.
Joey



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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 11:11:32 pm

I don't understand what you mean by NLE?

There is (as far as I can tell) no way to change loop in and out points in AE short of cutting each clip being looped to different lengths, this would take hours of work to simply replicate what is a very very basic function (moving a loop point) the footage does not speed up at all, the loops simply become shorter or longer or move to different sections of the clip, when I say it's almost impossible to do this in AE thats true.


I'm pretty shocked that considering this is such a basic fundamental of edditing that it's not addressed in AE or even by any third party pluggins. If it were a case of the footage simply needing to be sped up or slowed down then AE could do that, but this isn't the same thing.


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Joey Burnham
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 11:14:58 pm

Nle = non linear editor. Fcp, premiere, etc.

Ae is NOT editing software and is not built as such. That the basic answer to all your gripes. It's like getting mad at your plumber for not knowing how to make spaghetti for you.


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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 11:27:41 pm

I'm not trying to be hostile, sorry if it's come accross that way, I really do need help finding a way of creating this effect in a proffesional app.

I'm not trying to knock AE really, this is the sort of thing that I think it would excel at and I imagined it would be quite possible. I would still describe this kind of looping as an effect, though it is actually is editing.


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Joey Burnham
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 11:32:43 pm

Okay. If you want to do this in ae Just follow the advice already given. Either interpret the footage to loop or else you'll need to make a bunch of duplicate layers. You can speed up the footage using time remapping. This will vary the pitch of the audio as well.


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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 29, 2009 at 11:57:26 pm

The pitching of the audiio is actually a bit of an illusion, the clips audio is not speeding up or changing pitch, only the rate at which the clip is being played back is increasing, the audio content stays exactly at it's orriginal pitch, the "percieved" rise in pitch is an artifact caused by the length of the waveforms becomming cropped shorter and shorter until there are only very thin slices of the original waveform remaining, which then play in faster succession.

I don't have a problem with the audio, the problem is: it can't be done by increasing the speed or pitch of a loop and to manually cut each slice would take hours, I've counted them and there's over 100 slices, you can count them yourselfe by looking at the peaks in the audio waveform bellow, imagine each spike here needs it's own accompanying clip. . .



Click on the image and you can see where the loops become shorter and longer again in much greater detail.


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 30, 2009 at 3:41:17 pm

I'm pretty sure an Expression involving Time Remapping will work. The best folks to help you out hang out at the COW's AE Expressins forum.

The youtube vid seems to be lacking audio, the vimeo version works.

In your post there, specify if you want either random playback or to with control using an Expression Slider control.

HTH
RoRK

broadcastGEMs - AEPro Volume 02 (Professional Adobe After Effects Project Files - Now Available).

Adobe After Effects Training in South East Asia.


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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 30, 2009 at 5:46:14 pm

Oh cool, thanks Roland :) sounds like it's well worth giving them a shot, I'll post the question over there and see what they say.



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Michael Szalapski
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 30, 2009 at 6:13:39 pm

Doing this in an editing program wouldn't take as long as you think. Once you get a segment the length you want, you just copy and paste it. Then copy both of them and paste them. Copy the four and paste them several times and you'll get a long sequence of that tiny segment looping like in your clip. Time remapping is cool and all, but the speed it plays would be different, your example seems to all be playing at the same speed. Like I said, just make a clip in a video editing program (Final Cut, Avid, Premiere) and repeat it, make a different length clip and repeat it. You don't have to do all the cuts by hand at all.

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jun 30, 2009 at 6:58:32 pm

I understand what your saying Michael, but it's just not done that way, I created the clip, I didn't do any slicing at all, it's created using just 1 clip, with (Physical) rotary controls assigned to the loop in and out points.

I don't know how I can explain this, ok I'm going to make another video showing the process. . . . give me about an hour.


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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jul 1, 2009 at 12:12:08 am

Michael, does this help? it shows a lot more clearly how the clip was put together.

Lights 2 from ni-cad on Vimeo.



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Michael Szalapski
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jul 1, 2009 at 3:17:09 am

I understand how you created it. (But that video showing it is really cool.)

I was just trying to explain how they were suggesting you do it in an NLE. I agree with those who say you should check out the expressions forum and see if anybody there has a good suggestion.

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Richie Tovell
Re: Glitch loop effect.
on Jul 1, 2009 at 4:09:12 pm

Thanks.

It doesn't look possible in AE even with an expression, I guess it would take some kind of plugin to do it but that's probably not goinng to happen anytime soon.

These live video apps are so tempramental but they have so much potential.
It's odd, capturing live "user" input for the purpose of composing has been a priority in audio apps for many many years now, but we're only just starting to see it happening in video, though all the live apps are still in very early stages of development and still prone to a lot of problems.

To me the whole industrie looks like it's going through massive change but AE seems to be falling behind (much as I hate to say it) for example the new collection of free frame plugins - amaizing 3D effects that are designed to be used live, they have zero loading time!!! no wiating for previews is needed at all, it's all instant, half of these effects blow the Adobe stuff right out of the water, but they're not supported by AE. . . as yet.

Anyway, slight rant there sorry , I shouldn't knock AE, it's still one of my favorite apps of all time ;)

Regards Richie.


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