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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 1, 2016 at 12:11:03 pm

I upgraded my Quadro but AVG is keeping After Effects from reaching out to it.

AVG will not allow me to add an exception. The AVG site has no info. I am tired of fighting all of these glitches.
I wish software would do what it is supposed to do and quite causing problems.

If you had this problem and solved it I would appreciate any information.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 2, 2016 at 12:14:33 am

This really sounds like an AVG question.

Perhaps you'd want to add that exception for the entire After Effects folder, not just the application, so that AEGPUSniffer.exe can run, too.

Walter Soyka
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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 2, 2016 at 2:38:09 am

That might be or could be great if I knew how to accomplish that.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 2, 2016 at 3:18:54 am

Using the AVG interface I have gone through making a folder exception.

The first trial I only checked the bottom box. Then tried the bottom and top boxes.
Then even though I have let Windows 10 update the driver twice before I went through the process again and it installed yet a different driver.

That failed after a restart

Then I checked off all three boxes and applied that.

That attempt failed as well.

I will uninstall AE again. And install it again. Then restart.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25:33 am

AE was fully uninstalled and then installed again.

After a cold boot restart the AVG exception was checked.

AE still cannot see the GPU.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 2, 2016 at 4:28:32 am

HP Workstation manager was consulted and on recommendation and through the WSM the GPU driver was backstepped.

After a restarts there is still no change. No access to the GPU.

The Quadro is in the second PCIe16 slot.
Could that have an effect?

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 4:37:05 am

Sadly I feel stabbed in the back by both Adobe and nVidia.

Here is why:

My joy is shattered.
I'm a Senior citizen living on a fixed income. I do computer video, graphics and motion to earn extra money.
I bought the nVidia Quadro K2000 and used it for 2 years. However it was not strong enough for the 3D Ray Tracing I want to do.
So I bought the nVidia K2200 thinking it would be the perfect solution for my budget. It is listed for both Adobe applications etc as a drop in replacement.
I have spent weeks rebuilding my workstation. But in trying to get After Effects to recognize my proudly purchased Quadro K2200 I found I could not.
Weeks of searching, trying different drivers, making security exceptions, etc have been fruitless.
I just spent over 2 hours with a Creative Cloud agent. He tried everything I did with the same result. Then he showed me an Adobe page saying there are no drivers which will allow the nVidia K2200 to be accessed by After Effects ! The article even said there " never would be" drivers for that.

Is a struggling entrepeneur on a very limited budget supposed to just swallow the cost of a misrepresented product?
It is too late to return the card because of the long set up time. But It is worthless to my purpose. This is a major setback for my efforts.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 5:44:41 pm

Adrian, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I somehow glossed over the fact that you were installing a new Quadro card. Your're right that the K2200 is not on the supported GPU list [link]; NVIDIA's cards in the Maxwell family apparently do not support the version of the OptiX library that Ae uses.

A few thoughts:

1. The Quadro family is not the best choice for price/performance for Ae's ray-tracing renderer. Since you've passed the return window on your GPU, you might consider selling it and buying one of the GTX cards on the supported list. You will get way more CUDA performance out of a GTX card than a similarly-priced Quadro card anyway. The Quadro cards have some professional features (10-bit output, better driver support for CAD applications) that cost a lot and do not apply to Ae.

2. The ray-tracing renderer is not a good long-term solution [link]. Adobe is not focused on improving the ray-tracing renderer, choosing instead a new strategy of better support for third-party 3D workflows. I think you are better off using Element 3D for your 3D effects (which will render very quickly on the GPU you have, using OpenGL instead of CUDA), or perhaps looking into the bundled CINEMA 4D LITE.

3. Please feel free to ask hardware questions here before you buy something. There are a number of posters here who would be happy to lend their expertise and guide you toward efficient uses of your cash with respect to improving your Ae experience. I'm sorry I couldn't help you better before!

Walter Soyka
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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 6:37:09 pm

I saw that list before I bought. I cannot find a date on it. But I thought it was an old list and that the K2200 was was not on it because the list was obsolete. What was on my mind was the glowing advertising and the fact that it seemed like an update of my existing K2000.

Out of all of the cards on the list for the other graphics apps why would I suspect the k2200 would be the road apple not as capable as the others.

Where were the brightly colored disclaimers " NOT for AE 3D RAY TRACING ! " ?

With all it has going for it and the k2xxx designation etc. WHY would anyone assume it to be LESS capable?
It is linked with AE in much advertising. Why would anyone assume it unable to do Ray Tracing?

It is also unclear ( presumably a state secret) if it "c o u l d " work if it only had a driver written for it.

I like the idea of using one of the very newest low budget nVidia 3D cards. Is it the 780 that sells for almost the same as the K2200?
BUT how do I know it will be seen by AE ?

Ray traced render may be dead for Adobe but If I do work up to a full C4D package then what links THAT software to the GPU and WHAT lets me blend objects and footage THEN.

How does a small operator get anywhere when Corporations make arbitrary decisions we cannot keep up with?

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 6:47:20 pm

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio] "I like the idea of using one of the very newest low budget nVidia 3D cards. Is it the 780 that sells for almost the same as the K2200? BUT how do I know it will be seen by AE ?"

If it's on the supported GPU list, it has been tested and is known to work. If it's not on the list, you're on your own.


[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio] "Ray traced render may be dead for Adobe but If I do work up to a full C4D package then what links THAT software to the GPU and WHAT lets me blend objects and footage THEN."

C4D is not GPU-accelerated.

There are some GPU-based third-party renderers like Octane that integrate with C4D These will also have their own system requirements.

C4D/Ae has a workflow called CINEWARE [link] which lets Ae communicate with the C4D renderer, kind of like Dynamic Link. There is also the traditional workflow of rendering from C4D, then importing the rendered image sequences plus 3D camera data into Ae for compositing and integration.

Walter Soyka
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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 7:00:43 pm

I saw that list before I bought. I cannot find a date on it. But I thought it was an old list and that the K2200 was was not on it because the list was obsolete. What was on my mind was the glowing advertising and the fact that it seemed like an update of my existing K2000.

Out of all of the cards on the list for the other graphics apps why would I suspect the k2200 would be the road apple not as capable as the others.

Where were the brightly colored disclaimers " NOT for AE 3D RAY TRACING ! " ?

With all it has going for it and the k2xxx designation etc. WHY would anyone assume it to be LESS capable?
It is linked with AE in much advertising. Why would anyone assume it unable to do Ray Tracing?

It is also unclear ( presumably a state secret) if it "c o u l d " work if it only had a driver written for it.

I like the idea of using one of the very newest low budget nVidia 3D cards. Is it the 780 that sells for almost the same as the K2200?
BUT how do I know it will be seen by AE ?

If I buy the full C4D lite how will it see the k2200?Will C4D Lite use the K2200 for 3D Ray Tracing?

As far as plug ins packages go even if the basic one is low priced the publishers tend to dangle ever more plug ins to the plug in. A rabbit hole with diminishing returns?
That being said would Elements us the hundreds of cores in the K2200?
If AE does not see the cores and Elements is hosted within AE how will Elements see the cores?







Ray traced render may be dead for Adobe but If I do work up to a full C4D package then what links THAT software to the GPU and WHAT lets me blend objects and footage THEN.

How does a small operator get anywhere when Corporations make arbitrary decisions we cannot keep up with?

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstringer@gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications

http://twitter.com/FluxStringer
http://mog.com/FluxMuse


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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 7:08:24 pm

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio] "As far as plug ins packages go even if the basic one is low priced the publishers tend to dangle ever more plug ins to the plug in. A rabbit hole with diminishing returns? That being said would Elements us the hundreds of cores in the K2200? If AE does not see the cores and Elements is hosted within AE how will Elements see the cores?"

I suppose the value judgment is up to you. I think Element is extremely capable and reasonably priced. Minor updates have been free; Element's major upgrade cost some money but added a ton of new features. There are also 3D model packs available for additional cost, but I actually like that they break it out that way so you can only buy what you actually need.

Element3D uses the GPU in a completely different way than Ae does. Element is like a video game engine, using OpenGL to draw the scene with a set of graphics-only tools. The ray-tracing renderer uses CUDA, a technology for using the GPU for general-purpose calculations. They are not comparable, either in access methods or capability.

Also, as a sidebar, Ae plugins are special little programs that report to Ae and are capable of using hardware differently than the host does. Element3D uses OpenGL for rendering; Ae does not. GenArts Sapphire uses CUDA, independently of the ray-tracing renderer.

Walter Soyka
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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 7:40:35 pm

Would this card do Ray tracing in AE?

Would AE be able to access it?

https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Founders-Graphics-08G-P4-6170-KR/dp/B01...

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 7:46:33 pm

I am beginning to think the Adobe list is a way to clear the warehouses of old cards as new ones come out.
Users never getting the latest and greatest at good prices while they are cutting edge.

The list will always be obsolete.

Seemingly intentionally.


When the list is dated and updated in a timely way in keeping with new tech I will change my mind on the " intentionally " part.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 7:53:49 pm

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio] "The list will always be obsolete. Seemingly intentionally."

The ray-tracing renderer is obsolete. That's why I'm encouraging you to investigate other solutions.

Walter Soyka
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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 7:47:16 pm

The GTX 1070 is not on the supported card list. It uses an even newer architecture called Pascal than your Maxwell-based K2200. I would assume it does not work with the ray-tracing renderer until proven otherwise.

Walter Soyka
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Thomas Leong
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 5:03:01 am

Please specify the exact motherboard model you have. I'll then look up the online manual and see if I can spot anything that may help.

For a start, if the K2200 is the only graphics card in the pc, it should be installed in the first x16 slot (the one nearest the cpu). Installing in the second slot may/may not affect the situation depending on the motherboard model.

Secondly, can you uninstall AVG, and reboot to see if it is the cause? For your info, I am also a senior citizen (in another country) and have not used an anti-virus in my pc for 5 years now. I am my own anti-v.

Thomas Leong



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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 6:52:22 pm

Thank you for replying Thomas.

I have found out this card's GPU will not connect to After Effects at all. (?)
It is unclear to me if this is a driver issue. One Adobe source says a driver will never be written for this card in order for it to be accessed by After Effects for ray tracing.

For the record the machine is:
HP Performance Advisor Configuration Report


Computer Name: XXXXXXXX -Z600
Model: HP Z600 Workstation
Computer Type: Desktop
Manufactured by: Hewlett-Packard
Baseboard ID: 0B54h
Serial Number: 2ua0150mtp
BIOS version: 3.19 (Current Setting Group: After Effects CC)
Processor: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5506 @ 2.13GHz (2 processors)
Enabled Processor Count: 8
Total Memory: 16 GB
Local Storage: 3.78 TB (3 drives)
Graphics Card & Driver: Quadro K2200 -- 368.39
Slots in use:
SLOT 1 (PCI Express Gen 2 x8): Etron USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.0 (Microsoft)
SLOT 2 (PCI Express Gen 2): Quadro K2200
SLOT 3 (PCI Express x8): LSI Adapter, SAS 3000 series, 4-port with 1064E
SLOT 6 (PCI): Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller
Operating System: Windows 10 (64-bit)
Current Culture: en-US
Current Active Power Scheme: High performance (GUID {8c5e7fda-e8bf-4a96-9a85-a6e23a8c635c})
HP Performance Advisor: 1.8.9014.0 (Database Timestamp: 7/20/2016 1:36:58 PM)
Proxy server:
Installed Applications: Adobe After Effects CC
Adobe Photoshop Lightroom CC
Adobe SpeedGrade CC


The AVG issue was resolved. Exceptions were written but with no change.

The issue is a bought a card that After Effects can use EXCEPT it cannot do the very thing I bought it to do 3D RAY TRACING

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Thomas Leong
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 7:55:42 pm

Checking online, it would seem that your K2200 is in the correct x16 slot, albeit the 2nd slot, the 1st slot being only a x8 slot not meant for a graphics card.

Sounds like Walter has provided you with the right answers re the K2200 not being on AE's support list, though it does not really solve your predicament.

That said, I found this "after effects tutorial hack gpu raytracing for unsupported graphics cards" on youtube, albeit for CS6. Not sure if applicable to AE CC, but it seems simple enough to do, and if it does not work you can always re-edit to revert to the original .txt entries -








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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 3, 2016 at 8:04:00 pm

[Thomas Leong] "That said, I found this "after effects tutorial hack gpu raytracing for unsupported graphics cards" on youtube, albeit for CS6. Not sure if applicable to AE CC, but it seems simple enough to do, and if it does not work you can always re-edit to revert to the original .txt entries -"

It's not applicable to Ae CC.

Recent release of Ae have the option to attempt to use unsupported GPUs through the normal UI without having to change the text file.

Walter Soyka
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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 12, 2016 at 9:10:52 pm

Thank you for looking into this for me more Thomas.

I tried the method in the video. several times.

Restarting , etc, AE CC 2015 still does not see my K2200.

Thanks again

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 12, 2016 at 9:22:30 pm

I used AE to stabilize some footage last night.

I ran the HP Advisor GPU monitor. Even though AE should be seeing the GPU for other things and using the 600 + cores the operation was dog slow, the HP Advisor GPU monitor showed no activity above normal desktop activity levels.

Even rendering showed nothing above normal desktop activity.

Windows 10 resource monitor showed 54% CPU used for the stabilization analysis. I think it was more for the render.

Even though supposedly AE can use the K2200 for operations other than raytracing I don't see it happening. 5 or six drivers have been used by now in the last 10 days. This is disgusting.

I cannot imagine anyone even buying this brand new card from me so I can recover my money.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 12, 2016 at 9:26:52 pm

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio] "I ran the HP Advisor GPU monitor. Even though AE should be seeing the GPU for other things and using the 600 + cores the operation was dog slow, the HP Advisor GPU monitor showed no activity above normal desktop activity levels."

Ae currently uses the GPU for very little -- basically, just drawing the UI. The latest release has added GPU acceleration for a three effects: Gaussian Blur, Lumetri Color, and Sharpen. Everything else is CPU-driven.

Walter Soyka
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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 13, 2016 at 12:31:59 am

Then I have wasted a lot of money on GPUs believing 16 years of NVidia and Adobe marketing haven't I.

The PCs giving the math co processing power for fast calculation of effects stacks are way out of my price range.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 13, 2016 at 9:54:16 am

I understand how frustrated you must be. The supported GPU list from Adobe is accurate, but there's a sea of misinformation and bad assumptions from uninformed users out there. I get where it comes from. Ae is a graphics program -- why the heck doesn't it use the graphics processor?

I'm just trying to tell it like it is. I volunteer a lot of time here, a good deal of that helping folks from the Ae community pick out hardware. I have probably written hundreds of posts here detailing Ae's use of the GPU, and the cost/benefit analysis of GeForce over Quadro. I wish you had seen some of those posts, or that I could have helped you better, before you purchased your card.

Quadros are really great GPUs -- for other applications. 10-bit output support, double-precision floating point performance, driver support for CAD/CAM applications... the things that Quadros do well do not affect Ae render times. Hopefully, you can sell it to a user who would benefit better from it.

I think that in hindsight, Adobe building the ray-tracing renderer on NVIDIA's OptiX technology was a bad decision. I take the fact that the latest release of Ae has new GPU-accelerated effects, and can use not just CUDA but also OpenCL and Metal, to be a promising change of direction.

Walter Soyka
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Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
Re: After Effects blocked from seeing the GPU
on Aug 12, 2016 at 9:58:06 pm

The list of approved cards at Adobe.com and the list of approved cards at nVidia.com do not even match !

And the list of GTX cards that are approved are obsolete and probably take an order to existing stocks.
None of them can be found on the Staple's site or Best Buy.

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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