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Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular

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Ellen Leggett
Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 11, 2016 at 10:07:57 am

Hi everyone,
I couldn't find anything like what I'm experiencing anywhere and I'm hoping someone might be able to help.

I am currently creating a fire effect using trapcode particular. I have applied lots of effects directly to my solid layers such as VC color vibrance and Vector blur among others. I have two particle layers, and I had created a null object to pickwhip the emitter X and Y position to the null object x and Y position. simple yeah?

So, I had been trying to test out the particle effects in response to motion and noticed that my emitters had moved away from each other. I tested and realised that while there was a handle for the emitter position for each single effect, there was a second handle, which when moved, affected the emitter position is very strange ways. I could move the emitted handle away from the mystery handle and the particle effect would move in the opposite direction, in weird parabola curves, rotated symmetry stuff while ALSO stretching the effect in a very strange way, like a cross blur. UPDATE: it also seems to be linked to the centre of the layer??

So, I used my tired brain to think about how I could fix this. I knew that if the two handles were in the same spot that the emitter would also be there, as it should be. BUT because I wanted to move the effect with the benefits of the physics engine, and I did not know what the mystery marker represented, what value or effect it controlled, I could not even tween it manually to move with the other marker. The mystery marker clearly has an affect on the particle emitter, but I cannot for the life of my figure out what or why.

Until I have this fixed, I cannot even progress to finding out how my effect moves, let along apply it to my footage.
I really hope that it can be fixed, I have a major project that I am working on, and I really need this basic function working again to make any further progress.

Here is a screen shot of the situation:


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 11, 2016 at 12:57:05 pm






sorry, forgot how to add an image for a bit there.

I hope that makes sense...well, not the issue but the information about it anyways. if you need anymore information about my project settings, effect settings etc, just let me know.


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Daniel Waldron
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 11, 2016 at 1:47:44 pm

The easiest, most predictable way to control the motion of Particular is to use a light as an Emitter. If you need to follow the path of a Null Object, copy the beginning position of the Null Object onto the light and parent that light to your Null Object.

Otherwise, make sure your Null Object is 3D and pickwhip your Particular emitter's Z position to the z position of the Null Object.


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 12, 2016 at 4:46:22 am

I am unsure how to make the emitter a light, could you please elaborate form me? thanks :)


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 12, 2016 at 4:59:34 am

I used the name light option, if that's what you are talking about, I also reduced all the spherical field options to zero, but I am still experiencing the stretching of the effect when I move the emitter left or right of the centre of the comp. up and down don't seem to be affected. I have moved the particle layers into new comps, tested them there and still have the stretched problem.


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:09:27 am

Actually, with more testing I can see that moving the emitter above and below centre also stretches it, just to a lesser extent. The stretching seems to be associated with the x axis and looks like a cross blur. The emitter when moved left or right of centre is also still not in the right spot, the stretched effect gets pulled between the centre of the layer and the emitter position or something like that.
If it helps at all, I used this tutorial to begin my effect, then played around with the gravity and other settings, as well as applying vector blurs etc.





Perhaps someone can see and option ticked that shouldn't be?


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Walter Soyka
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 12, 2016 at 8:09:25 pm

[Ellen Leggett] "I used the name light option, if that's what you are talking about, I also reduced all the spherical field options to zero, but I am still experiencing the stretching of the effect when I move the emitter left or right of the centre of the comp. up and down don't seem to be affected. I have moved the particle layers into new comps, tested them there and still have the stretched problem."

Can you post some screenshots that show your entire UI, including the timeline?

Have you possibly made the Particular layer a 3D layer?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 13, 2016 at 3:12:01 am

I have some rotation of the effect, but I don't think I made it 3D.
Here's a screen shot, I can get more of the settings under particular if you want.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 11, 2016 at 2:17:56 pm

Your mystery handle is the Spherical Field [link], which is a spherical displacement field that can push/pull particles in your system.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 12, 2016 at 4:43:45 am

Thank you so much! I had no idea. :)


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 12, 2016 at 4:50:11 am

So, if I have no use for the spherical field, setting the values to zero should remove its influence over any aspect of my effect yes?


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 14, 2016 at 3:37:37 am

If I could get some more opinions or help that would be awesome, I'm in a bit of a rush because of the due date for my assessment coming very soon, and the footage I have really needs this effect, and I can't see any valid work-arounds.

Urgent need of answers, my work has come to a halt!
help me CreativeCOW, you're my only hope.


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Kalle Kannisto
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 14, 2016 at 10:22:46 am

If you need quick help, best to upload the project file so we can take a look and see what's going on with it.


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 14, 2016 at 11:46:52 am

thanks so much, didn't know I could do that. Will do.

10298_makingfire.aep.zip

Here it is. the simplified comp (after my initial building of the effect) is called "# showing Creativecow"
Thanks for your help


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Walter Soyka
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 14, 2016 at 1:36:14 pm

Particular > World Transform > Y Rotation has an expression on it, which is spinning the entire Particular system around -- but not the controls. Removing that expression will leave the particle system pinned to the emitter control in the UI, but will change the look a bit.

Also, your Particular solid layer is larger than it needs to be or really should be. You can make that solid the same size as the comp it's in.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 14, 2016 at 4:11:27 pm

Thanks so much, I killed the expression (Which previously I'd done a test render I didn't really like the look of anyways) and that fixed it!! Oh my goodness, I cannot tell you how grateful I am for your help, I never would have been able to figure it out on my own. So glad I can get back to work with a working effect!!


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 16, 2016 at 2:02:01 pm

I have been working with the particular effects for a while, rebuilding my desired effect, and when I went to do a test render the effect wouldn't show up. I checked visibility of layers and the parented null object, checked the composition length, but i still couldn't find why it wouldn't render. In the preview window it shows up just fine.

So I tried an experiment, and created a coloured solid layer to put underneath the particle layers, in the hopes that with a new background colour I could determine if the render was working for any layers in the comp at all, but found that the layer wouldn't show up under the particular effect. It just doesn't seem right, I cant figure out why its working the way it is. I can't help but think It has something to do with the null object (Which I had to make 3D to make the particular effects show up in the first place), since I have been able to layer the particle effects over images before.

So sorry to bother you again for your help.
Thanks


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Daniel Waldron
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 16, 2016 at 2:14:01 pm

The null object should have nothing to do with the visibility of your particles, unless they are positioned off the screen. The fact that you can't see layers underneath your Particular layer points to a render setting or blend mode issue. Is your Particular layer black? Could you post a screenshot of your settings?


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 16, 2016 at 3:33:48 pm

the particular layers are not black, they are light pink to white in particle colour coming form a red solid.
Here are some screen shots of my layer settings inside the comp and the render settings used (Just default as I had been hoping to preview the effect before working further)








And render settings:



hope that helps. Also just posted project file if you need it.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 16, 2016 at 3:53:16 pm

Screenshots of your entire UI are always helpful. Perhaps you were previewing a view other than "Active Camera?"

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 16, 2016 at 3:42:02 pm

EDIT:

Okay, this is very strange, but all of a sudden the render works, shows the solid and everything. as does the preview. I don't remember doing anything..then again, i could just be forgetting, its very late here.
thanks, ill let you know if my problems come up again. :)


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 16, 2016 at 3:44:45 pm

oh my goodness, sorry. my mistake was saying the preview. the preview doesn't show the cyan layer but the render does. sorry about that. its late. :)


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Ellen Leggett
Re: Trouble with X/Y values for emitter Trapcode particular
on Jul 16, 2016 at 3:24:41 pm

Sorry, I forgot, here's the updated project file in case you need it.

10306_makingfire.aep.zip

Thanks again.


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