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Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question

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Josh Dekay
Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 10, 2014 at 6:45:30 pm

Hello,

I'm a UI designer and have been getting into some motion graphics and video work.

I'm going to be creating an animated lower thirds graphic in After Effects. The footage that it will overlay is 24fps. I'm concerned that the motion graphics will not be smooth at this rate.

What is the standard approach for getting smooth motion graphics over video that is 24fps?

Should I create the graphics at 24 fps or higher?

Thanks!
-J

PS - The current plan is that my coworker will make the edits in Final Cut. He then plans to integrate my motion graphics. The other option is that I can take is edit from Final Cut, and then integrate my motion graphics via Premier Pro.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 10, 2014 at 7:01:48 pm

If you need to deliver 24fps, you'll need to work at 24fps. Phenomena such as judder occur more frequently at such lower frame rates.

It won't do any good to work at a higher frame rate, because eventually you'll end up at 24fps... back at Square One.

Motion Blur can help, but you'll have to keep a close eye on the speed of the motion.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Josh Dekay
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 10, 2014 at 7:06:34 pm

Thank you Dave, that's what I was thinking.

I have a couple more questions that you might also be able to help with.

1. How is broadcast usually handled? Say a show in HGTV or Travel Channel that features a vacationing spot? Is that usually shot in 24 or 30 these days?
2. We'll be delivering to the web (Youtube and the like), is it normal to shoot at 24 fps for this platform, or is it better to shoot at 30?

Also it is bad practice to shoot at 24fps, then create motion graphics at 30 fps and then have a final output of 30fps so that the motion graphics are smoother? I'm assuming it is, but would just like to verify.

In interest of learning, please provide reasoning for your answers.

Thank so much!


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Daniel Waldron
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 10, 2014 at 8:20:30 pm

Dave's advice is spot on of course, but just to add a few thoughts...

Think of the look you're going for to select your final frame rate. If you want it to look a like a TV show, shoot 29.97. If you're going for more of a film look, shoot 23.976 (24fps). If you want a smoother motion with lots of detail, you can even shoot and edit at a higher frame rate (Delivery at higher frame rates is a little trickier however). It all depends on what you're looking for.

In this case it sounds like you have a say in how it gets shot, but in a lot of cases the editor or graphics artist just has to go with whatever was decided and shot before. You should absolutely use the same frame rate the footage is delivered in. If you think graphics at 23.976 aren't smooth, try putting a 29.97fps graphic on a 23.976 timeline. Suddenly the 23.976 graphics don't look so bad!

Add motion blur and you should be in good shape.


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Josh Dekay
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 10, 2014 at 8:29:07 pm

Excellent, thanks Daniel!

What motion blur do you recommend in AE for this? I know there are a couple types. I'm using AE 2014.

Btw, based on what I've read, it looks like Youtube plays files back at whatever rate it's uploaded at (as long as it's a standard rate). Is this what you've experienced as well?

For this particular project, we're stuck with 24 because it's already shot. In the future I might recommend 30 (or 29.97) depending on how the graphics look.

The video content is similar to Travel Channel where locations are featured. For that look, these are what you have defined as a "Show" look (30fps or 29.97), correct?

Also, I see that AE has both 30 and 29.97 listed and Dave mentions 29.97 being "real". Can someone elaborate on why 29.97 is "real" so to speak?

Thanks for your time.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 11, 2014 at 12:54:30 am

Blame the weird frame rates on color TV. No kidding.

In the days of B&W TV-only in the USA, frame rates really were 30 & 24 (no 60 at the time). They showed movies on TV through the venerable 3:2 pulldown process.

In 1953 when TV went color in the USA, they needed to send out a little more information to accommodate the color signal on broadcast TV. Something had to give, and it wasn't the bandwidth -- it was the frame rate.

Even though almost everything's digital, the weird frame rates remain. You get used to them.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Josh Dekay
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 11, 2014 at 1:14:48 am

Hey Dave,

I've been doing a lot of hunting around today. One thing that I ended up reading, which might be what you were alluding to as well, is that the frequency for the new color channel was phasing (interfering) with color channel. The quick and dirty fix was to drop the frame rate by .03fps to bring them out of phase.

It's funny (and as a logical person annoying - haha) when standards based on a quick fix like this are adopted and persist for a long period of time. But I'm guessing it was the best that could be done given the situation.

Anyways, thanks again for the help :)


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 11, 2014 at 1:29:23 am

Yeah, when the last 4x3 standard-def TV dies in America, maybe they'll come to their senses. Maybe.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Josh Dekay
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 11, 2014 at 2:06:20 am

:)


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 10, 2014 at 7:18:38 pm

My advice: start at the end. Find out what you're supposed to DELIVER. This will narrow down a lot of speculation.

And get used to odd frame rates like 59.94, 29.97 and 23.976.
Those are the REAL frame rates... not 60, 30, and 24.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Josh Dekay
Re: Motion Graphics / Lower Thirds Graphic FPS Question
on Nov 10, 2014 at 7:28:56 pm

Ok, thanks for your reply.

If anyone else has anything to add, please do. I'm sub'd and appreciate any advice/answers.

Cheers -


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