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Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?

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estelle baylisAnyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 9:02:04 am

Morning all,

I've done some tracking before, and obviously the tracker in AFX has moved on in leaps and bounds, but has anyone ever created something similar to the below link.



It's a beautifully slick piece, and I'm guessing may also have had some Flame treatment. I have a rough idea how long it might take but if anyone has created anything similar, it would be really helpful to find out their timescales.

Many thanks all!
estelle :)


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Andrey SibiryakovRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 3:54:17 pm

I've met some templates of bouncing words and that infographic stuff around.
Try to get a project of it.

Sorry for not helping with a link.
I've run on it accidentally some time ago.


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sanex yaRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 4:01:19 pm

Hi

usualy it takes one-two working days for a minute of video.


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estelle baylisRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 4:32:25 pm

Sanex - I'm on about the graphics, and not the actual filming ;)


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sanex yaRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 5:38:11 pm

yea! I know :)

if you have all the footage done it doesnt take a lot of time
but if you do it first time it can be more time but usualy its not so hard
I did something like this...


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 7:59:12 pm

Estelle -

I generally quote projects like this by starting out with a sheet of paper - I write down each element as I roll through the sample. Then I write down each element and what is involved (ie, tracking, text animation, etc.). I then put this into a spreadsheet which contains my hourly rate, and log how many hours each of these elements will take me to complete. If I'm doing the edit as well, I put in how many hours of editing to complete the piece.

When I'm done I have a very close match to what the final billing will be. It looks as if it's a combination of 3D tracking (look at AE CS6 for this one) and text animation. Nothing too complicated, but lots of it. If you haven't done this before, I suggest that you find a piece of stock footage, do a track on it, and log how long it takes you. Same with the text. You'll be able to hit the quote right on the money. With this process I generally am able to put my quotes within plus or minus 10 percent of my initially figuring. If the client seems as if they will be difficult, add a 10 to 15 percent contingency fee on top of it, to cover your time on uncalled for revisions. Some clients love to make changes just to hear the sound of their voice. Good luck!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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estelle baylisRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 9:20:46 pm

Don't I just know about last minute changes!
Thanks for your detailed response Joe. I think your spreadsheet idea sounds great, even though that scares me more than any 3D tracking.

Now all I need is my CS6 upgrade...


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Andrew SomersRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 4, 2012 at 11:17:04 pm

sanex said: "if you have all the footage done it doesnt take a lot of time"


LOL yea right.

In the first minute of the above video, there are 16 separate camera tracking shots or object tracks. And at least half a dozen animated rotos. It would take more than two working days just to complete THAT work for just the first minute of the video, and that's not including any of the graphics and compositing or color correction.

The term "working days" is also kind of nebulous. Do you mean a normal non-union 8 hour day? Or are you working 16-18 hours to try and shove this out in "two days"???


THE REALITY:


It is best to consider the total "hours" that such a task will take. To do this break it down into the various segments/ component shots and working tasks.


Assuming that you already have an offline cut as your starting point then a task list might look something like this (workflow assumes AE CS6 and the bundled version of Mocha:


TASKS:



•Pull counts for footage from offline.
•Load and Lineup camera originals into After Effects sequence(s).
•Determine the type of track needed for each shot. For instance, some of the shots of the text next floating next to the person might work as a planar track in mocha. Others though clearly need a 3D camera solve.
• Determine the other tasks per shot such as tracked roto, kind of graphics animation, etc. For instance, a person walking in front of a graphic will need a tracked/animated roto created in Mocha. Some of the graphics in the above video needed some level of 3D work, while others worked as a simpler 2D graphic.


Once you have the breakdown, then you can estimate the time involved.


CONSIDERATIONS:

3D tracks:

If you are creating a 3D camera, remember that once you starting building the shot with the camera, than any adjustments to the camera solve will require significant changes to the 3D environment/elements to match the new solve. As a result it is very important that you assess that the solve is stable before doing significant work.

As such, after completing a solve in PFtrack of BouJou, import the camera and then use the nulls as validation points, and render to see if it is as stable as you need. WHile there are tools to validate inside PF or BJ, it's good to double check inside AE. If using the new 3D solver in AE6, it will be important to validate the quality of the track before doing significant work.

Therefore, it is important to time budget for the time needed to validate a 3D solve and adjust. It's bad to assume that because an autotrack and autosolve takes a total of 30 minutes, that you only need to allocate 30 minutes to the task. In the real world, an autotrack and autosolve will rarely work on the first pass, and will need substantial massaging to get it to work.

A *simple* 3D solve should be expected to take no less than 2 hours (including validation). Some complicated shots can take days to get a solid, useable solve.

If doing 3D tracks, you want to have a second system available to continue other working during solve/adjustment iterations. (Or enough RAM to have multiple large applications running simul).


Animations:

My generally feeling on planning the time budget for animation is to follow this formula:


TimeToComplete = (AnimationElements * ShotLength * how_long_you_think_it_should_take * yourDesireToSleep) * 10

I.e. - animation can take up a vast amount of time, not just in the setup and conceptualization, but in the little tweaks and finesses - you render, see something you want to massage, go in fix it and re-render - but wait there;s a nothing little thing....

It is a very iterative process. What was done in the above paris video looks simple and elegant - but that apparent simplicity undoubtedly took many iterations to finesse.


Roto:

Mocha is a great tool for creating animated, tracked rotos - but even so, it still takes quite a bit of time and labor to get good solid and usable rotos.



SUMMARY:

At any rate Estelle, I hope this was useful - If I were to pull a figure out of thin air without doing a proper breakdown, I'd say that the above Paris video was somewhere in the 200-hours of work range.


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sanex yaRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 5, 2012 at 7:27:22 am

If I was asked to do this work I'll say client I will finishe it in 10-12 days )))

That's because I dont get paied by hours but finished project. SO it's important for me to do it in short period.

But even if I can do it faster I will say 10-12 days client because he has to understand this is still not easy! )


2 Andrew Somers


I said 1 minute of the video takes 2 days. Working day is about 8 hours.
but you are right more time is usualy better!


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estelle baylisRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 5, 2012 at 7:29:11 am

Thanks so much Andrew! That's incredibly helpful.
I knew that this would take a lot more than 2 days to create what with rotoscoping / animating graphic elements etc, but couldn't work out exactly how long, and especially useful to know you use Boujou / PF Track. The Paris piece just didn't feel like an AFX only job.
Once again, thank you. Will be looking into Boujou today! (and spreadsheets).


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Andrew SomersRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 5, 2012 at 8:33:18 pm

Just as an FYI. BouJou is very expensive ($10,000), and slow, and may be overkill in many situations - but if you have a shot that no other app can solve, BouJou is the one that can.

I have yet to try the new 3d camera solver in CS6 so I can't compare, BUT:

If you are new to 3D solving, consider:


PFHoe - a cheap $100 app that is a very stripped down version of PFTrack ($3300). PFHoe has a number of limitations, but is also a great way to get your feet wet in 3D Camera Solving. For simple shots, it does a surprisingly good job.

The Foundry also has a 3D tracking plugin for AE that is reasonably priced.

And the standalone SynthEyes is also a very capable plug in at around $600.

Also, the new Mocha 3 now adds 3D camera solving to their excellent planar tracking methodology, and I believe it is included in the very reasonably priced Mocha3 AE.



It is important to note that each 3D camera solving application has their own idiosyncrasies and workflows, and one may outperform another in a certain situation. I have not upgraded to CS6 yet but am interested to see how useful their 3D camera solver is.


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 6, 2012 at 3:35:30 am

I own and use The Foundry's Camera Tracker for AE - it has a relatively steep learning curve (nothing like 3D Studio, mind you - I've been working with that for over 10 years and I'm lucky if I know 20 percent of the features), but that said, it's very powerful, and can do some difficult 3D tracks.

I just installed the Adobe CS6 Master Collection, and started doing the 3D tracks which I'd used the Foundry's tracker for, and I must say that right out of the box, it nailed things that would have taken quite a bit more time in The Foundry tracker. I haven't gone much under the hood with it, but it appears that there's not much need to go under the hood and fiddle with point cloud accuracy and all that hoorah. I do think Boujou is overkill for the project you're looking at; I see it as an investment for shops which specialize in SFX projects. I'd say that if you're ready to make the jump to CS6, you could definitely accomplish the tracks in your sample video with AE's new feature.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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estelle baylisRe: Anyone have any any ideas how long it would take to recreate this in After Effects?
by on Jul 20, 2012 at 11:18:34 am

Forgot to say a proper thank you to all of you for your replies. As usual, I got side tracked with other jobs! Anyway, I now have CS6 and looking forward to trying out some motion tracking :)


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