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Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS

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Danny AbelTranscoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 2:16:05 pm

Hi All,

I have a project that was shot in DVCPRO HD 720p/24 fps and I need to transcode it to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS. I've tried it in FCP and it looks like crap. The internet gods have told me that using After Effects is the best way to do this, but I can't figure it out for the life of me.

If anyone could point me in the right direction, it would really save me!

I have CS3, but the way.

Thanks!

Danny


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Joey ForemanRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 3:44:10 pm

All you have to do is drop your 720p 23.976 clip into a standard NTSC DV sequence, but with Field Dominace set to None. This will scale it down and letterbox it.
FCP will add the pulldown during playback, and when you export the sequence using Current Settings.
The motion will be visually indistinguishable from 23.976 when played back.
The is similar to how 24 fps films are converted for standard tv.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 4:02:18 pm

Sorry Joey, that ain't the way to get smooth motion. It'll look God-awful. Here's what you do:

Create a 23.976 fps DV comp. Scale the footage to fit the comp. At render time -- NOT export time -- tell AE to add 3:2 pulldown in the render settings; any of the 5 settings will work just fine. Make sure the field order is set to Lower Field First.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Danny AbelRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 5:39:11 pm

Hi Dave -- thank you so much for your help! I've followed your instructions and I'm still having a bit of trouble.

The picture quality doesn't look terrible, but it does look a bit interlacey when the subjects move (horizontal lines trail from the movements). Also, for some reason it's not rendering out the audio, but that might just be a silly newbie mistake.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Danny


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Dave LaRondeRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 6:01:14 pm

Then don't look at it on a computer monitor -- go look at it on a video monitor. Or render a 23.976 file with no pulldown and make a 24p DVD. You didn't tell us how you need to deliver your final work, y'know.

Could it also be something else that you didn't tell us, like mistaking 23.98 for the actual NTSC film frame rate, which is 23.976? Did you conform any footage to 23.98? Go fix it.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Danny AbelRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 6:49:36 pm

Solid insight. Here's my workflow:

The video was shot on DVC PRO HD 720p/24 (on a HVX-200 via P2 cards) and edited in FCP. Now I need to output it into NTSC to be transfered on a beta SP tape for television.

I do not have access to a video monitor today (working everything out on my laptop from home), but is that interlacing typical when viewing NTSC on an LCD?

Also, any idea about the audio?

Thank you so much again, you are really saving my ass.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 9:10:20 pm

[Danny Abel] "The video was shot on DVC PRO HD 720p/24 (on a HVX-200 via P2 cards) and edited in FCP..."

You didn't shoot 720pN/24, which creates 23.976 (aka 23.98) files upon log & transfer into FCP? How come?

If you edited in a 29.97 timeline in FCP, you have to make a 29.97 DVD. And yes, you'll see interlacing: that's how 3:2 pulldown works.

So why are you asking about his in AE Basics? Why not get it from the horse's mouth in the FCP forum on the COW?

You should have Log & transferred, removing pulldown (if necessary) to make 23.98 video, and edited in FCP at 23.98. I Hope you did. If the answer's "yes", you can make a 24p DVD, y'know. People do it all the time. What do you think you're seeing when you rent a Hollywood movie on DVD? You're seeing 24p video, and the DVD player knows enough to add the 3:2 pulldown.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Danny AbelRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 9:29:45 pm

Hey Dave,

Just to clarify: The project was indeed edited on a 23.976 timeline in final cut pro. Now it needs to be transcoded into a format that can be transfered onto a beta tape.

I was under the impression that footage transfered onto beta sp tapes had to be in NTSC format and running 29.97 FPS. Am I mistaken about that?

Through researching this topic I have surmised that the best way of transcoding DVC PRO HD 720p 24 FPS into DV NTSC 29.97 FPS is through AE.

When I attempted the workflow that you suggested, I ran into the problems that I described previously.

Do you maybe have any other ideas that might help me out?

Thanks!


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Dave LaRondeRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 7, 2010 at 10:02:17 pm

Got a AJA Kona or a nice Blackmagic card? They can add the pulldown when you go to tape. How 'bout that?

If you don't, and you MUST add pulldown, follow my instructions earlier. You've done the proper log, capture & editing, so you'll be okay -- you just seeing the pulldown & interlacing needed to make a 29.97 file.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Joey ForemanRe: Transcoding DVCPRO HD 720p/24 to DV NTSC 29.9 FPS
by on Apr 8, 2010 at 2:47:45 pm

Boy was I out in left field on this one, revealing a fundamental misunderstanding of the pulldown process. I thought that it worked with whole frames, rather than fields.
I thought that the resultant repetition of every fourth or fifth frame in the 29.97 timeline was what was meant by FCP adding pulldown "on the fly", and had somehow convinced myself the the resultant motion was acceptable.
FCP can add pulldown on the fly over firewire to DV tape, but from, as Dave said, a 23.976 timeline, not a 29.97 one.
My apologies for the misinformation.
I wish I had invested in Chris and Trish Meyer's Videosyncracies a few years ago.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification, Dave.




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