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GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?

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Michael OatesGTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 29, 2015 at 8:15:29 pm

I am running a 12 core Mac Pro 5.1 and using AVID and After Effects. I would like to take advantage of the NVidia Cuda Cores to accrelerate rendering. The K5000 is a "dedicated" rendering board but has fewer cores. However, it also has the Nvidia Driver that supposedly activates the Cuda Cores. The GTX980Ti has more cores, but there is currently no NVidia driver for Mac that will allow them to work on my system. Any thoughts on which card to use----I am not a gamer.....I need rendering capability.


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Dave LaRondeRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 30, 2015 at 4:14:40 pm

Cuda won't speed AE rendering... sorry! In the last 2 versions the GPU does almost nothing.
A crummy but still-okay procedure to pick up some speed is the following:

If you've gotten AE CC 2015 to work properly for you (good luck with that one), congratulations and open your completed project file in AE CC 2014. That's right, an older version, and use it for multiprocessing... which is absent in the newer version.

A weird way to work, huh? Well, that's what happens when software companies have their users by the short hairs.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael OatesRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 30, 2015 at 5:01:59 pm

Thanks Dave. I happen to have a version of AE version 5.5 and might try that as well. I did speak to someone at Adobe at a recent show in NYC who claimed that AE Version 6 has this capability.

However, the problem is really more of a driver problem. Apparently the Nvidia Mac Driver for the K5000 Quadro card is the last "real" Mac Cuda Core driver that Nvidia produced....other than for the GTX680.

The K5000 has 1536 cores and is a true rendering card---not a gaming card. The 980TI is really more of a gaming card, and with its 2800+ cores, it could challenge the K5000 is set up properly for rendering work. I believe Nvidia has avoided producing the proper Mac Driver for this new card, other than the Web Driver software they offer for it.

I am hoping some third party figures out a way (develops a driver) to access those cores for rendering purposes on a Mac. We'll see. Thanks for the tip.


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Tero AhlforsRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 30, 2015 at 4:58:52 pm

AE won't get much out of a GPU. Some plugins might. I wouldn't buy an expensive GPU only for AE. If you're using Premiere and/or Resolve then go ahead.


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Michael OatesRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 30, 2015 at 6:32:15 pm

Any thoughts on a different (better) card that will accelerate AE rendering?


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Dave LaRondeRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 30, 2015 at 6:55:55 pm

No thoughts on acceleration.

Not until Adobe gets its act together on re-vamping 20-year-old software to meet the demands of the 21st century. Lord only knows when they'll be finished with that.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 4:13:42 pm

[Michael Oates] "Any thoughts on a different (better) card that will accelerate AE rendering?"

The only rendering that's accelerated by CUDA on the GPU in Ae is the ray-tracing renderer, which is due for replacement [link].

Ae does have some GPU-accelerated draw calls to the screen for the UI, but it's not a big deal and nearly any card will do. See here for more:
After Effects Help / GPU (CUDA, OpenGL) features [link]

Dave's right-on talking about multiprocessing as your best solution for faster renders. Can you describe your system specs and what version of Ae you're actually using?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Michael OatesRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 4:43:59 pm

Walter:

I have a MacPro 12 core 3.46GHz (5.1), 32GB RAM, and running 10.10.5
The card is an EVGA 980TI.

With this card, I am using all the PCIE slots.

Any additional addvice?


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Dave LaRondeRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 5:29:43 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Dec 31, 2015 at 5:30:44 pm

Here's a link to get an older version:
https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/help/download-install-app.html#topic...

Look about halfway down the page.

I like to export AAF files from Avid and use AE's PRO Import option to bring an edit timeline in as a comp. Very handy, except if you need audio for reference. I just export a separate audio file and use it instead. It has the added virtue of being just one comp layer instead of all that other AAF audio layer garbage.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael OatesRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 6:40:15 pm

Walter and Dave:

thanks os much for thelp. I've ordered additional RAM from OWC....will now check out the link Dave referred me to.
I'll report back once I figure all this out (and get more RAM).....should be in about a week.

Thanks and Happy New Year!


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Michael OatesRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 4:46:16 pm

Sorry...here's the AE info.

I have AE 5.5 installed.
I also have the latest AE CC (2015).


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Walter SoykaRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 5:04:57 pm

[Michael Oates] "I have a MacPro 12 core 3.46GHz (5.1), 32GB RAM, and running 10.10.5... I have AE 5.5 installed. I also have the latest AE CC (2015)."

When you say AE 5.5, I assume you mean Ae CS 5.5, which was AE v10.5 from 2011. There have been a great many enhancements since then, including the Global Performance Cache in CS6. But which version should you pick?

After Effects is in transition right now. In Ae CC 2014 and prior, Ae's performance was seriously limited by its underlying architecture, with some concepts dating back 20+ years. Ae CC 2015 is a major re-architecture designed to address these limitations in a modern way without altering the user experience, but it's still a work-in-progress.

My suggestions for better performance on your system:

Use a more recent version of Ae. Personally, my studio uses a mix of 2015 and 2014. We use mainly use 2015 for the big interactivity improvements, but jump back to 2014 for multiprocessing rendering or if anything gets weird. (Ae 2014 and 2015 use the exact same project file format, so you can bounce back and forth between versions with the same AEP files.)

Buy more RAM. You can get 64 GB of memory from Other World Computing for $360. More RAM will let you take better advantage of multiprocessing on Ae CC 2014 and lower.

Enable multiprocessing, leaving about a quarter of your RAM free for other applications, and allocating 3-4 GB or more per background process.

Buy an SSD, and use it for the cache. When Ae renders a frame for preview and caches that frame and its layers it in RAM, it also (eventually) caches them to disk. As you're working, if Ae detects that it's already rendered a given layer-frame, and if it's faster to read from the disk than it is to recalculate, Ae will grab the render back from disk. To take advantage of this and avoid re-rendering the same exact work over and over, you need a fast disk like an SSD.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Michael OatesRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 5:11:15 pm

Thanks Walter.....it sounds like I am partially there. I use SSDs allmost exclusively for this work.

At this point, I need to
1. increase my RAM and
2. look into how to download AE CC 2014 (I imagine I can find it on the Adobe Site.

My only question is whether the additional RAM is really worth it......I rarely top it out, although I do run AVID Media Composer at the same time----bouncing between that and AE.

Mike


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Walter SoykaRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Dec 31, 2015 at 5:27:05 pm

[Michael Oates] "My only question is whether the additional RAM is really worth it......I rarely top it out, although I do run AVID Media Composer at the same time----bouncing between that and AE."

Once you enable multiprocessing, you will.

Multiprocessing works by launching multiple instances of the Ae renderer. Each one needs its own space in RAM for its own separate copy of the project file, its own copy of the footage, its own caches, etc. Your ability to effectively use your CPU will be limited by your available RAM with Ae's old multiprocessing design.

Less RAM means launching fewer instances of the renderer, lengthening your render times. Less RAM means each render instance has less space for caching, which means more slow disk access instead of fast RAM access for footage references.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Kevin SnyderRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Jan 1, 2016 at 8:38:18 am

I used to think the same thing back when I was running 16 GB of RAM. Now that I moved up to 32 GB AE uses a lot more. I did a test render prior to upgrading my RAM and I discovered that with just an increase in RAM alone I was able to decrease render time... Not even using multiprocessor options.


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Somogyi ZoltanRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Mar 5, 2016 at 8:57:31 am

Hi Guys!
I loved to red Your conversation about the object of AE render acceleration, and I learned a lot! Since more than 3 months (2015 nov.) I study this to make a good machine for AE, PP, Edius, Clarisse, C4D workflow and now I have more question than before :) ! My priority is the fluid workflow, less the rendering.
Here is what I found, maybe I can give a little plus info (and raise more questions :D ):
AE CC 2014 has the ability to use GPU for ray traced rendering.
AE CC 2015 has not. (? I cant check it out right now the exact version, so if I am wrong than sorry! The latest AE is surely lack of this ability, just like the multi-processing)
Here are some benchmarks about it:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XXe5n4Tmp9BwSL4fHM7dmbN6OwSRVvSwWGn...

and the article:
http://www.loopoutcontinue.com/cuda/

There You can find the project file for the benchmark test and You can test Your system as well and get a relative result. And a lot more better result to find in the posts. As I understand, if the system can render under 10 minutes, that is a good one and no need to tune further, unless it is a high priority.

On the benchmark list You can find MACs and PCs and Hackintosh as well, with lot of VGA cards.
I'm not a MAC user, so I don't really know that the 980Ti has or has not official driver for MAC yet, but I found, that it has a different architecture than the GTX 7xx and earlier. (the only exception is the 750Ti, which has the same Maxwell arch like the 9xx series) Titans has both kinds.
So in the AE VGA support list there are no MAxwell arch VGA, only Fermi (5xx and erlier) and Kepler (6xx, 7xx).
But, Adobe has solved this, and made a patch, so we can use 9xx series and the rest of the Titans for ray-traced rendering. (and they are good at)
Here You can find the patch and the official statement from Adobe:
http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2012/05/gpu-cuda-opengl-features-in-aft...

Hope I could give You some useful info. Or maybe You won't read this, so just for the record :)

Cheers!


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Walter SoykaRe: GTX980Ti or Quadro K5000?
by on Mar 7, 2016 at 1:59:55 pm

[Somogyi Zoltan] "AE CC 2014 has the ability to use GPU for ray traced rendering. AE CC 2015 has not. (? I cant check it out right now the exact version, so if I am wrong than sorry! The latest AE is surely lack of this ability, just like the multi-processing)"

Ae CC 2015 still uses CUDA-enabled NVIDIA cards for hardware acceleration of the ray-tracing renderer.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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