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Stephen Ondik
Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 3:09:43 pm

Hi Guys,

We're having issues with our newly purchased Mac Pro crashing during overnight renders on AE CC2014.
We've reached out to Adobe support, but haven't been able to nail down the issue. They say our crash reports indicate that it's a GFX card issue. This model has dual 3gb AMD fire pros, 64gb Ram, intel 6 core.

We've tried going 32/32 on the ram usage per adobe to no avail, still crashes (we've been using 40/24).

We've tried rendering thru media encoder, still crashes...sometimes it seems to restart itself. We'd rather use the render queue anyway, to take advantage of multi core rendering in CC2014. Part of our problem is that these are long 10hr overnight renders so we have no way of monitoring until we come in the next morning.

We've tried with multi core processing on & off using the render queue, it still crashes. I've read online of an issue where mac pros end up using too much system ram (100% usage) and crash when in render queue, though we haven't been able to tell if thats whats happening, again adobe says its a GFX issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I always find answers here, this is my first post!


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 3:54:55 pm

I hope you're not working on a very tight deadline.

It could be an effect. To track it down, set up to render an image sequence, not a movie. When it crashes, you'll have the frame number on which it crashed, and uyou can scrutinize the comp at that point.

You'll also have perfectly-good frames already rendered that you don't have to re-render.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Stephen Ondik
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 4:06:10 pm

Dave,

Thank you for your response and advice. We'll definitely get an image sequence rendering out this afternoon. I failed to mention in the previous post that we have an older mac pro in the office , equipped with a very nice GPU (nvidia card), that is able to render these overnight renders. We purchased the new mac to double our render efficiency. I think it's certainly possible that the amd cards in the newer mac aren't jiving with a particular effect and this can hopefully shed some light on which effect it is. The deadline is not at all tight and we have time to experiment. I'll report our findings tomorrow morning.

Thanks again!


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Walter Soyka
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 7:43:54 pm

Ae doesn't normally render anything on the GPU -- except for a few effects like Cartoon, Element 3D, Red Giant Universe, etc.

What effects are you using in this project? You can get a quick list from a text file if you use File > Dependencies > Collect files... and check the "Generate report only" box in the "Collect Files" dialog box.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Stephen Ondik
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 8:05:53 pm

The project is currently using these effects.

Effects used: 28
Effect: 3D Camera Tracker
Effect: Alpha Cleaner
Effect: Box Blur
Effect: Camera Lens Blur
Effect: Channel Blur
Effect: Color Balance
Effect: Corner Pin
Effect: Curves
Effect: Drop Shadow
Effect: Element
Effect: Fill
Effect: FL Out Of Focus
Effect: Gaussian Blur
Effect: Gradient Ramp
Effect: Grid
Effect: Hue/Saturation
Effect: KC Denoiser
Effect: Keylight (1.2)
Effect: Levels
Effect: Mesh Warp
Effect: Mosaic
Effect: Optics Compensation
Effect: Paint
Effect: Particular
Effect: RSMB
Effect: Set Channels
Effect: Smooth Screen
Effect: Stroke


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Walter Soyka
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 8:20:02 pm

[Stephen Ondik] "Effect: Element"

This one jumps out at me as being completely reliant on the GPU. Do you have the latest updates to Element installed?

On the hardware side, do you have good airflow around the Mac Pro?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Stephen Ondik
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 8:54:58 pm

We have the most current version of Element installed (2.2.1).

Regarding airflow, the Mac Pro sits on a desk with plenty of room.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 10:00:31 pm

[Stephen Ondik] "We have the most current version of Element installed (2.2.1). Regarding airflow, the Mac Pro sits on a desk with plenty of room."

So much for the easy stuff.

What version of OS X? Do you have other apps open on the computer while rendering?

Is the Element scene complex or very high-res? Can it complete a render at reduced resolution, or with supersampling turned down a bit?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Stephen Ondik
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 29, 2015 at 10:16:16 pm

The OSX version we're running is 10.10.4.

When we leave the renders going, AE is the only thing open. We have been able to complete the render on quarter resolution. it takes around an hr and a half (we've run these during the day). Overnight renders are usually run at half res, & sometimes full res, but have yet to complete one without a crash. We're going to run a full res image sequence (jpeg) overnight, and see if we're crashing during the section where element is being used, or any other plugins. I'll report back tomorrow morning with the results.

Thanks again for all your help with this!


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Stephen Ondik
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 30, 2015 at 2:46:54 pm

OK,
AE crashed again last night while running the JPEG sequence. After looking at the JPEGs we now know that its element that's causing the problem as the last JPEG that rendered was right before the element layer. This morning we tried to render out a small portion of the element layer section and it crashed immediately.

We left a half res render (quicktime) on our older mac pro with an Nvidia card, and it finished properly. So it seems like there's an issue with the element plugin & the ATI cards in the newer mac pro?

Some other information about these comps I should have mentioned previously they are 6500x4800 in size, that we're rendering to full (1920x1080) or half (960x540).

In the element section where it's crashing there's two groups, one with 5 elements & 1 with 1 element (sometimes we turn off some of these & only use 3, or 4 depending on the script). In the comp we tried to render last night there were 4 active where it crashed. There's other sections where element is being used, that DO render fine, and there's no more than 4 elements on screen in those sections as well.

We're running some other tests on the element layers, turning some off & seeing if we can get thru rendering the section.

here's a link to a screen grab of the crash report if it may be of any use:

http://imgur.com/pcobv9M

Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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Matthew Woods
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 30, 2015 at 3:43:01 pm
Last Edited By Matthew Woods on Sep 30, 2015 at 3:45:39 pm

If you try a full res render on your old mac and I bet it will crash. 6500x4800 is a very high resolution for element, and there is a big difference between full and half resolution which is one quarter of the pixels. Because Element renders in the graphics card, Vram is more important than ram, and if Vram runs out, Element crashes. I would try experimenting with lowering Element's multisampling and render settings in the offending section. In my experience, lowering the multisampling usually works to avoid crashes on high resolution renders. You can safely increase Super-Sampling to improve the anti-aliasing, but it slows things down.

See this for more suggestions. http://www.videocopilot.net/docs/element2/troubleshooting/render_problems/

Good luck,

-Matt

Check out 9 Slice Scale.
A way to scale graphics while preserving the border and corners.
An FxFactory Plugin for AE, Premiere, Motion and FCP.
http://monadnock.org/9slice/


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Stephen Ondik
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 30, 2015 at 3:57:44 pm

Matt,

We have been successful in rendering out full res (1920x1080) from the 6500x4800 comp on the older mac pro. It has a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 6gb card installed in it. The newer mac pro also has 6gb of Vram, but it's split between two 3gb cards, not sure if there's a difference vs 6gb from one card...We're going to try turning Multi-Sampling down to see if we can render full on the new mac. Strange the older one doesn't have this issue which is why our hunch is it's between Element and the FIRE PRO D500s.

Is there a way to purge cache from video cards in AE before a render. I know purging gets rid of cache files, but does anything get cached in Vram? The reason I ask is we've opened up the same comp a few different times, without changing any settings and render an element portion. Sometimes it crashes, and sometimes it doesn't when rendering this section. Doesn't seem to be a reason as to why it sometimes works.

Thanks again.


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Matthew Woods
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Sep 30, 2015 at 5:31:11 pm

I'm pretty sure that Element currently only supports one graphics card, so you actually have twice the V-Ram on your older machine (6Gb vs 3Gb). Unfortunately, only Apple stuff seems to support their dual graphics cards well. That is the main reason, we haven't upgraded to one of the new mac pros. I'll take an older mac-pro tower, upgraded with a new graphics card, an SSD, and a usb3 card over one of the new mac pros any day. I've always been an Apple guy, but I'm not happy with their current "pro" offerings.

-Matt

Check out 9 Slice Scale.
A way to scale graphics while preserving the border and corners.
An FxFactory Plugin for AE, Premiere, Motion and FCP.
http://monadnock.org/9slice/


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Stephen Ondik
Re: Mac Pro 2013 Render Issues
on Oct 1, 2015 at 10:43:57 pm

Matt,

I wanted to let you and anyone else with this issue know that lowering the multisampling, as you suggested, fixed the issue. We raised super-sampling to improve the anti-aliasing and it made it thru a night of renders. It's certainly unfortunate that element does not support dual GPUs, hopefully they'll update to include this in the future.

Thanks again everyone for your help.


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