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Any workaround for Mocha's requirement that scaling be on if rotation is active?

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Matthew WoodAny workaround for Mocha's requirement that scaling be on if rotation is active?
by on May 20, 2015 at 3:57:51 am
Last Edited By Matthew Wood on May 20, 2015 at 4:14:07 am

This drives me crazy and, literally, 90% of my tracks would be better served if I could just have translation and rotation, without scaling, enabled.

Also, and this is important, I am using it for shape data and rotoing limbs, not corner pinning. So the planar box is irrelevant, I am specifically talking about the transform box data.

Is there any way to accomplish this? I realize that I can turn off scaling in AE after I import it, but that would mean that the parts of the track that were scaling down, in Mocha, will be a little bit off, n AE. Hoping for a better solution, thanks

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Ross ShainRe: Any workaround for Mocha's requirement that scaling be on if rotation is active?
by on May 21, 2015 at 1:47:30 pm

Hey Matthew,
Sorry to say in shipping version of mocha AE (or current mocha Pro) you cannot do translation + rotate without having scale turned on. I can look into adding this in a future release.

Are you doing the roto in mocha or using the track data to drive roto in AE? I would advise using mocha for the actual roto. Since you are not concerned about the "surface" (track data), one cool trick for roto.

Before you track, do a few manual keyframes on your shape throughout the shot. For example, add a couple rough keyframes every 30-60 frames. Then try your planar track. This is almost like a guide search area and can be very effective when using mocha for roto.

other tips: crack up min % of pixels used.

If scale is throwing your roto so far off, my guess is that your search area is including areas that are not on the same plane. Since mocha is planar tracker, you still need to focus on "planes". Moving limbs can be tricky, but hopefully some of my suggestions will help.

P.S. We are working on a very cool spline tracking feature for dealing with "organic" motion for the next major release of mocha.

Ross Shain
Imagineer Systems
http://www.imagineersystems.com


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Matthew WoodRe: Any workaround for Mocha's requirement that scaling be on if rotation is active?
by on May 22, 2015 at 8:02:47 am
Last Edited By Matthew Wood on May 22, 2015 at 8:05:09 am


Hi, Ross, thanks for the reply and tips, I will try what you suggesst. A few things, first. I just realized that you may be right about the plane. When rotoing the thigh, I include half of the torso/groin area. Part of that will not move with the rest of the thigh... But I also think you are right and that the planar track has relevance...

I think it is weird and awkward to have to oonsider and configure and base your work and track on an object(planar trac)that has no relevance in the final output, which is a shape layer or mask.

Will manual tracking make the shape track completely free of the planar track's influence? Mary Poplin has a vid where she rotos a female boxer. She skips past the "30 minutes" it took her to roto the whole thing, limb by limb in order to "save ux the bore". I would like to see that "bore" or something similar. That is the only organic "action" sequence footage that I have seen a Mocha roto tut of, and it skips the meat of it. Is she using the planar track for each limb? I cannot even visualize, in my head, how that works when each limb is shifting planes all the time

Thanks for tips

W

The shape track abilities are fantastic, though, when they


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Ross ShainRe: Any workaround for Mocha's requirement that scaling be on if rotation is active?
by on May 22, 2015 at 4:40:07 pm

Hi Matthew,
I would not mess with "manual track" for this purpose. Manual track is really a last resort to bail you our for adjusting the surface for typical screen inert or corner pinning tracking. It will hose you for roto.

As far as making sure (or at least thinking about) tracking "planes" - it is important if you are using mocha. mocha is not a point tracker and even when focusing on roto only project, planes are important. Think of planes as pixel patterns.

You mention a leg and the torso area. It might help to think about: the most pixels moving in the same direction is what planar tracking looks at. If pixels on the torso are moving in slightly opposite direction, you should not include this in the track search area. This is why many tutorials show focusing on a small dedicated area, tracking, than linking a new shape layer to the track. This way you can still contain the torso area, linked to the same track.

It really is a matter of practice and learning when and where mocha will help you and when manual keyframing is necessary. Most artists who take the time to really dive into mocha find at least a 40% time increase compared to other roto methods. Again, we hope that our next version will have some interesting features to help handle organic shape roto such as moving limbs.

Best,
Ross

Ross Shain
Imagineer Systems
http://www.imagineersystems.com


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Matthew WoodRe: Any workaround for Mocha's requirement that scaling be on if rotation is active?
by on May 25, 2015 at 11:22:54 pm
Last Edited By Matthew Wood on May 25, 2015 at 11:26:08 pm

Hi, Ross, thanks again. Okay, so the "roto track", that is the actual search area for the planar track AND, also, separately, the shape layer track/mask, is that right? Really is an odd way to design it, I think.

Also, the "roto track", that search area created by the splines is also, along with the planar box, tracking a plane? Again, seems very odd when that is the data used to create a shape or mask in AE. If that plane is in any way being affected by the planar box.

Ill try again as you suggest but if these are the cases, it may be that there is a better solution for tracking organic limbs, than AE, for me, at least. Maybe when and/or if a tut specifically focused on this comes out it will clear things up for me.



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