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Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing

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Logan KingNested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 4:34:44 pm

Going through some of the old posts on this same problem faced by many others like me have educated me about the error and why it actually happens but I am not any closer to solving this on my own so I look once again to this forum and it's experts. Kindly help me.

Problem :

Keyframing a Null in the main comp 'breaks' the expression & doesnt animate the nested pre-comps one of which is a time remapped layer.

Explanation :

The project is a human head with time remapped mouth shapes and time remapped eyelid blinking.
Here's the Hierarchy of my project :

Head Comp
>Eyes
>> Left Eye

>>> Left Eyelids Animation (Sequence of left eyelid closing)
>>> Eye_L
>>>> L_Eye_Pupil
>>>> L_Eye_EyeBall

>> Right Eye

>>> Right Eyelids Animation
>>> Eye_R
>>>> R_Eye_Pupil
>>>> R_Eye_EyeBall


Now, L_Eye_Pupil has a Null which is linked with the position of the pupil with this : thisComp.layer("Left_Pupil_Control").transform.position/20

This expression is applied on the Pupil layer itself.

The Null layer is named : Left_P_Ctrl

This null has a position expression comp("Character Head").layer("Pupil_Control").transform.position


As you can see in the last expression the null Left_P_Ctrl is linked to a null in the main "Head Comp" which is named "Pupil_Control"

Now the idea is to animate the Pupil_Control which would control a null in both the right and the left eye (Left_P_Ctrl & Right_P_Ctrl) which would control the Pupil's position.

Everything works fine here but just as long as I dont start keyframing the Pupil_Control. As soon as I start to, the pupils stop responding to the Null's positions.

I have read other posts here & the adobe forums that this is caused because of the start time of the time remapped precomp layer is not zero in the main comp - which in my case would be the precomp containing the eye lid animation within the Eyes comp which is remapped and linked to a slider for animation in the main comp.

I tried to use this expression on the Left_P_Ctrl null :
C = comp("Character Head");

ctrl = thisComp.layer("Left_P_Ctrl").transform.position/20;

L = C.layer("Eyes").layer("Eyelids Animation").layer("Eye_L");

ctrl.valueAtTime(time+L.startTime)


I know this isnt the correct way of doing it or in anyway close to being correct and in line 4 at L=C.layer blah blah blah I was just trying to point through the nesting to the layer that contained my null, offcourse thats not the way to do it.

The original code was sourced from this post forums.creativecow. net/thread /227/28144


So guys please tell me what to do to get this working.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 4:43:30 pm

How about this: instead of keyframing that Pupil Control, what if you just pick-whip it the value of a slider on a different layer, which you can then keyframe?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Logan KingRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 5:53:23 pm

Thnx Mr Dave for responding.Pick whipping would result in the same code which I wrote. comp("Character Head").layer("Pupil_Control").transform.position


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Cassius MarquesRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 5:48:31 pm

If you can, strip the project down to the non-working state and upload it so I can take a look.


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Logan KingRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 5:54:01 pm

Will involve major reworking of all the assets as it's a private NDA signed project...


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Stephen MendenhallRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 6:08:22 pm
Last Edited By Stephen Mendenhall on May 13, 2015 at 7:15:43 pm

What is the duration of your time remapped comp?
If it is shorter than the comp it is nested in, you can have some problems.

For projects like those, it typically works best when all nested comps are the same duration and have the same in point. This has saved me when working with problems just like the one you're describing.


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Logan KingRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 6:29:03 pm

Duration of the Eye lid animation is just a few frames.


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Logan KingRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 6:51:21 pm

I'd try but out of my noobness I have created 2 sliders in 1 null.

One controls the blinking the other controls the mouth shape.
I've deleted all that data in the version I uploaded but I fear that if I change the duration of the time remapped comps it'll throw off the entire lip syncing.


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Cassius MarquesRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 6:32:03 pm

It doens't animate at all or it does but at a different time?

You'll have to account for those time discrepancies. Its hard for me to tell you the right expression without seeing the whole thing. Its usually just accounting for different layer inPoints, using the valueAtTime method.


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Logan KingRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 6:48:58 pm

It doesnt animate at all when keyframing. Everything works as it should when there arent any keyframes.

I've stripped down the project to it's bare minimum to show you guys where I am.
Download the file from GD : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3SViR0dADZkbDNVbEdFWThzdlU/view?usp=shari...

It should open in CS 5.5 & above versions.

Let me know if the link works.


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Cassius MarquesRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 7:46:38 pm

I saw the project... the way your hierarchy is set will never work. You cannot hope to mantain a spacetime relation while desregarding time.

I mean, you can't timeremmap your "eyes" comp, if you want anything inside it to keep any "position at a time" link to something outside it. Every eye blink animation remmap can only go after the position link (if you would precomp the Eye_pupil.ai layer for example).


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Logan KingRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 13, 2015 at 10:16:31 pm

So could you suggest a work around on this ?


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Logan KingRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 14, 2015 at 1:42:39 am
Last Edited By Logan King on May 14, 2015 at 1:43:49 am

So I am using this code now :


C = comp("Character Head");

ctrl = C.layer("Pupil_Master_Control").transform.position;
L = comp("Eye_Right").layer("Right_Pupil_Control");
ctrl.valueAtTime(time+L.startTime)


Pupil Master Control is in the main comp called "Character_Head".
"Eye_Right" is inside "Eyes" which is in the main comp itself.

Code gives no error but is a step forward in the sense that now when I am inside the nested comps I can actually see the "Right_Pupil_Control" -the null which controls the pupil - actually MOVE.

BUT for some stupid reason the movement is not updating in the main comp and seems weird.


I even tried purging & preserving nested frame rate through comp's advanced option but to no avail.


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Brian CharlesRe: Nested Time-remapped Comps' error with Keyframing
by on May 14, 2015 at 2:58:36 am

[Logan King] "BUT for some stupid reason the movement is not updating in the main comp and seems weird."

As Cassius wrote it is due to the time remapping applied to the Eyes composition. Remove it and make the composition longer and extend the elements within the other comps.

See: 8833_noremap.aep.zip



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