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Color Profile Question

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Adam Davies
Color Profile Question
on Jan 22, 2015 at 9:27:51 pm

To be very brief,
This is not exactly an AE question...but bear with me
I am in post-production on a 15-minute stop-motion animation.

lots of issues and bad decisions along the way, but I'd love some thoughts on one in particular.

Because we learned better practices along the way, the source material for the first 3 minutes of our film is only Jpegs, at that point, we started shooting Jpeg as well as Raw.

The issue I've run into is that the color profile for all of our jpegs (the entire film) is sRGB IEC61966-2.1, while all of our Raws are Adobe (1998). Obviously a mistake, whoops...but now, moving forward.

so I know that it might be best for me to convert all of the Raws from Adobe (1998) to sRGB, however I'm trying to be smart about where and when to convert.

I could convert all of the Raws to sRGB as my first step (i would then be fixed and everything would be sRGB till then end)
OR are there any benefits to color correcting the Raws in Adobe (1998) and then as a last step before delivering, convert to sRGB

Thanks beforehand for everyone's time!

(one final question: as I understand it, sRGB is the correct color profile for playing over the interweb,
is sRGB also a good profile for DCP or HDCam?)


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Profile Question
on Jan 23, 2015 at 2:54:58 am

No need to manually convert your files.

Enable color management in After Effects by setting a working space for your project in project settings. (sRGB or Rec. 709 would be good candidates).

Interpret footage for your imported footage items and make sure that you have each tagged with the correct profile (sRGB or Adobe 1998).

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Adam Davies
Re: Color Profile Question
on Jan 24, 2015 at 7:51:02 pm

Thanks Walter!

That saves me a boatload of time, great tip.


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Chris Wright
Re: Color Profile Question
on Jan 23, 2015 at 6:13:24 pm

"you should set the project color depth to 16 bpc or 32 bpc, at least for rendering for final output
The working color space should match the output color space that has the largest gamut. For example, if you plan to output to Adobe RGB and sRGB, then use Adobe RGB as your working color space, because Adobe RGB has a larger gamut and can therefore represent more saturated colors. To preserve over-range values, work in 32-bpc color for its high dynamic range."

and your simulate preview needs to be your color managed monitor which is usually sRGB or rec.709 depending on how you setup your calibration.

and a lot of web video is rec.709 not sRGB too, so your ouput profile may need to change. also, if the web player
doesn't support color management, you can use utility color profile to burn in the correct 16-235 or 255 bits.


http://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/using/color-management.html#choose_a_w...


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Adam Davies
Re: Color Profile Question
on Jan 24, 2015 at 11:14:55 pm

Thanks Chris!

Extremely helpful,

so just to clear up, if, in AE, I color manage my Adobe (1998) footage to be sRGB or Rec. 709, and then export for the web out of AE, the color profile will not be baked-in? it will only be 'color managed'?

I've set my Photoshop so that it alerts me whenever material outside of my color profile work space is opened. it allows me to convert my frames to the correct color profile right there. is Photoshop doing the same thing as the color utility, or is it only superficially color managing, like AE?

Thanks!,
A.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Profile Question
on Jan 25, 2015 at 8:49:05 pm

[Adam Davies] "so just to clear up, if, in AE, I color manage my Adobe (1998) footage to be sRGB or Rec. 709, and then export for the web out of AE, the color profile will not be baked-in? it will only be 'color managed'?"

What does "baked in" mean to you in this context?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Adam Davies
Re: Color Profile Question
on Feb 4, 2015 at 4:57:15 am

Well, I guess I'm wondering what the difference is between what AE does and what PS does.

This makes me think that AE is only superficially changing the footage from Adobe RGB (1998) to sRGB, whereas PS converts the footage...??

Or am I wrong?

Which process will be play more consistently across the web?


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Profile Question
on Feb 4, 2015 at 5:18:59 am

[Adam Davies] "This makes me think that AE is only superficially changing the footage from Adobe RGB (1998) to sRGB, whereas PS converts the footage...??"

I'm still unclear on what you think the difference is. I'll post over my stock summary of color management in Ae, and maybe I can help if you have questions after that.

Here's my intro to color management in Ae:

Different color profiles may use the same RGB numbers to represent different colors. For example, a specific RGB value in Adobe RGB may look different on-screen than it does in Rec. 709, and Adobe RGB and Rec. 709 may use different RGB numbers to represent the same color.

The goal of color management is to keep the appearance of color consistent across profiles and devices. To do that, you must define how the color is coming in (by interpreting your footage with the correct profile), and also define how it's going out (by choosing a working space that matches your destination, or by choosing another working space and adding a profile that matches your destination to the output module).

Following this idea, Ae's color management brings in images and movies in their own spaces, and then converts them from their native color profiles into the working space, changing the RGB numbers from the source profile to whatever RGB numbers represent that original color in the working space.

Why? Because unless you have a common working space for colors represented in other profiles, Ae has no consistent mathematical basis for processing effects and output. Without a common working space, there's no way to ensure consistent color combining sources with different profiles or transforming sources from one input profile to a different output profile.

Once all the source images are transformed into the working space, Ae performs all the additional mathematics for effects and blending in the working space, then optionally converts from the working space to an output profile for previews (using your monitor profile) and renders (using the output profile specified in the item's output module).

Once the render is out of your hands, you lose control of color. Your viewer's hardware and software may or may not be color-managed or configured properly -- but at least you can be sure that nothing in your workflow did any harm.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Adam Davies
Re: Color Profile Question
on Feb 4, 2015 at 5:32:10 am

Awesome! Thanks Walter, that makes complete sense now.

Thanks for the fast response,
Cheers


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Chris Wright
Re: Color Profile Question
on Feb 4, 2015 at 2:19:03 pm

this should be added to a sticky or f.a.q. or something. Nice post!


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