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Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates

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Tom Holmes
Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 14, 2015 at 12:34:42 pm

Hi Guys!!

This may not necessarily be an after effects query, but I'm working in AE so here goes...

I have 240fps video. I want to be able to "Hide" a single frame within the video so it can only been seen when the video is slowed down. AE caps comps at 99fps so I'm unable to create a comp to match the video and create a frame in there.

Any advice people? Is this possible... are there other ways to hide images within video?

Thanks

Tom


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Jim Arco
Re: Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 14, 2015 at 1:30:58 pm

The human eye/brain combination has an amazing ability to notice changes, so hiding a particular frame will be difficult unless it is VERY similar to surrounding frames. Search for studies done on 'subliminal advertising' to get more specific detail on this.

In addition, the actual playback rate of most moving imagery is limited by the physical display device. So your 240fps video will be played at 30 or 60 fps, unless you have some special device that can actually display 240 fps.


Jim


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Romain Bardinet
Re: Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 14, 2015 at 1:39:32 pm

You want to hide a randomn frame?
Maybe, <----------------------> the clip, so the video will be slower, and you will have all of the frames showing, then you have to delete the chosen frame,and >-------< your clip as it was before.
You have two clips to >------< , so use the same coefficient while ">------<"ing.
I think that it will be better if you : remember the initial time, then make a render of your mid-clip (just <--< your clip so the black frame is replaced) and then, open this clip in a new project and take it to the time you noted - 1 frame duration. = No coefficient.

Im sorry for the ">-----<" and stuff, but i dont know how to say that!
Hope it was what you asked for :)

Im newbie pls dont kill me :x (+ it's my real name ! I just forgot to ulpoad the signature xD )


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 14, 2015 at 4:49:37 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Jan 14, 2015 at 4:53:23 pm

Import your 120fps footage. In AE's Interpret Footage settings, conform it to 60fps -- AE can handle that; you'll re-conform later. Make a 60fps comp. Import the clip. Place your single frame of "hidden" video wherever you want in the timeline on the layer above the big, long clip.

Render in the media container and codec of your choice. When done, re-conform it to 120fps.

I'll be EXTREMELY interested to know the Miracle Playback Device you plan to use that's capable of playing back 120fps... to say nothing of the Miracle Display Device that's capable of displaying 120 fps playback. Please write back and tell us. We're on pins & needles.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris Wright
Re: Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 14, 2015 at 5:54:52 pm
Last Edited By Chris Wright on Jan 14, 2015 at 6:09:56 pm

99 fps is the highest support but you could try 99 fps interlaced which would be 198 fps in fields. the 240fps might be slightly slower in playback. You can then conform the meta tag in quicktime back to 240fps.

As long as the interpret and compositions are the same, there won't be any missing frames.

he could actually hide it as an interlaced frame! since 120 is half of 60, he could render out 60 interlaced lower or upper field and the frame would last 120th/sec. No way you could see that! and the extra bonus is that it would play on normal playback devices.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 14, 2015 at 7:54:24 pm

Nice idea, but not correct. There isn't any interlacing at 59.94 (aka 60) frames/sec. Using a normal playback & display device, the video would be 1280x720, 59.94 FRAMES.

The interlacing comes into play for 1920x1080 footage... at which point the frame rate becomes 29.97 interlaced frames/sec... or 59.94 fields.

That's why I'm so intrigued by the guy's playback & display devices.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tom Holmes
Re: Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 16, 2015 at 2:15:31 pm

The FG2421 Gaming Monitor has a refresh rate of 240Hz, capable of playing 240fps footage.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Hiding single frames within video footage with high frame rates
on Jan 16, 2015 at 4:37:53 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Jan 16, 2015 at 4:56:07 pm

That's nice, but somewhat irrelevant. What's the maximum frame rate of the playback device? That would appear to be your limiting factor... and you haven't told us that.

If Blu-Ray players could play back only at 15fps, it wouldn't matter if I had a monitor capable of displaying a gazillion FPS... I'd still only see 15fps.

And I don't think you've taken the concept of Persistence of Vision in human beings into account in you plan to imbed stray frames into a shot. It would be a crap shoot whether anyone would even see them.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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