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32gb can't render 4k?

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David Cabestany
32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 8:39:18 pm

I have a comp which is 4096 x 2048 px, each time I tried to render it with MP on I get the following error:


After Effects warning: A frame failed to render while using Render Multiple Frames Simultaneously. Allocating more memory to the background processes in Memory & Multiprocessing Preferences may fix this problem. (26 :: 142)


When I turn off MP then nothing renders, I click the render button and it immediately goes back to be clickable again and the comp is still available on the render queue, no error is generated in the log.

I have a relatively powerful machine, 32gb ram and 2gb graphics card, but admittedly it is a very complex file with almost 200 layers in the main comp and many more nested, on top of that everything in the main comp runs through separate instances of a plug in called FullGlobe, in which each instance is reading data from several external documents. My timeline is almost 4 and half minutes long.

could it be that I'm expecting too much from my machine?

Thanks,
D.


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Cassius Marques
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 9:12:11 pm

Can you preview the first frame in full res?


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Todd Kopriva
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 9:19:34 pm

I just rendered a simple composition (one footage layer scaled up quite a lot) at those dimensions at 32bpc, on a computer with less RAM than yours, and it worked fine for me.

So, this just shows that it's not the pixel dimensions and the color bit depth alone that are the problems for you, nor is it the amount of RAM in your computer.

There must be something else that is requiring a lot of memory for the problematic frame. Many effects require much more RAM to process than just the amount to hold the number of pixels within the frame. I recommend trying to render with various effects disabled until you find the culprit.

Also, 3D layers can require a lot of memory to process under some circumstances (e.g., when a camera is positioned very close to a layer).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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EricBowen
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 9:26:14 pm

Is this Windows or OSX? Try to render just the first 30 seconds of the comp. What codec/format are you trying to render to?

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 9:45:41 pm

Hey guys thanks for your help.

I'm on Mac and no, I can't render the first full frame, no file is created at all when I click render. However I can see it full res full size inside the composition panel while I work in it.

Eric, I tried rendering to every codec available on my machine including prores, avid, h265(qt wrapper) and uncompressed, as well as several types of image sequences. I tried first 30 seconds, then 10, then one. Nothing worked.


Todd, although I have a background layer that is over 6,000 pixels wide scales down I'm almost positive that the offending plug in is one called Fullglobe, which die to the nature if the project needs to be applied to each layer individually, 194 times. Then each instance of the plug on has 6 or 7 expressions, some reference other layers in the same comp, some reference several external documents. I'm guessing the calculation of all those expressions it's a huge burden for the program.

However the plug in has a "preview" setting which in turns changes the size of the comp to 2048x2048 (distorts everything to look as if it was on a sphere, in fact that's the main purpose of the plug in. Whenever I'm in this preview mode I can render, it takes a long time but it renders.

I don't have 3d layers in the main comp, however I have several I'm the nested comps.

Thanks,
D.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 9:55:22 pm

I would prerender as many of the component pieces as possible, to diminish the overall burden on RAM when rendering the final composition.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 10:37:28 pm

I think I'll have to do that. I prerendered the two most complex layers but evidently wasn't enough.

Quick question though, I started a new render a couple hours ago and at first it started ok with MP off, however when I returned to check on it it was stopped (as in done) and where it normally says how long it took it said: "Will continue from 0:00:23:26. I clicked Render again and it didn't start again.

The log shows the comp as finished rendered but it only rendered the first 23 seconds, the project is over 4 minutes.

I never saw a render interrupted and that "Will continue from…" before. Does this mean that the machine ran out of memory and stopped?

Thanks again,
D.


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EricBowen
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 10:41:30 pm

What drive do you have the AE cache going to and what size did you allocate?

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 11:03:41 pm

It's the original internal ssd drive from my imac, originally I had 69 gb but I reduced it to 50gb, I need to clean up that drive to expand it more.


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EricBowen
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 5, 2014 at 11:16:15 pm

This comp is going to need more than that. To give you an idea my 30 seconds of 4K takes almost 96GB to render at full resolution. 64GB of ram required AE flushing from ram atleast 3 times and this comp was no where near as ram intensive as yours. You need allot of room for this and pre-render as much as you can. 4K is massive data per frame compared to 1080.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 6, 2014 at 4:07:03 am

Crap. Definitely not the answer I was looking for.

One las question, did you purge the ram cache using the secret menu in the preferences or stopping your project, emptying the folder and restarting it again?

Thanks a lot everyone for your help.


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EricBowen
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 6, 2014 at 3:00:34 pm

No AE flushed the ram automatically when the ram usage reached a certain level close to the max ram.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 6, 2014 at 4:06:13 pm

Ok, so here's what's happened today. Todd, I'm really hopping you can chime in on this, I'm completely puzzled.

I prerendered a bunch of layers and then I soloed to prerender them again as a single element.

As I started this second render everything worked fine with MP on and then my display went to sleep. I clicked a single key to wake it up and then the rendered was stopped with the following warning:


"After Effects warning: A frame failed to render while using Render Multiple Frames Simultaneously. Allocating more memory to the background processes in Memory & Multiprocessing Preferences may fix this problem. (26 :: 142)"

So I started it again with MP off, and it started fine, it said it would take around 45 minutes. Then again, 13 minutes in the screen went to sleep again (just the screen, I have the hard drive set up to never go to sleep) and when I woke it up the render had failed again. Except this time the queue says: User stopped and no error is being generated.

I tried to start the render again both with MP on and off and it's not working again. The only way to make it work is to send it again to the render queue all over again from scratch.

I changed my screen to not go to sleep now, but this is definitely a first, I've never seen the screen going to sleep affecting my renders, in fact most nights I set up nigh long renders and put the display to sleep myself.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.
D.


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Jeff Kay
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 6, 2014 at 7:22:36 pm

What is the final render from AE set to output as?

You should be able to render as a png sequence which will give you partial renders that should be relatively easy to combine or continue from the error. Its certainly not the most desirable option, but it should be a viable, though potentially time consuming, workaround. Then take that png sequence and encode it to whatever format you are using/delivering (its going to be pretty big, a quick estimate would put a 4min 4K video at around 240GB).

Alternatively if you can pre-render whatever pre-comps/layers/elements and then replace those elements with rendered footage, then AE will only have to deal with a video stream rather than a collection of elements that has multiple effects placed upon them.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 1:49:24 pm

[Jeff Kay] "You should be able to render as a png sequence"

I don't usually recommend PNG sequences -- they are relatively slow to compress. PSD, TIFF, or TGA might be faster choices.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Jeff Kay
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 9, 2014 at 3:50:53 pm

Yeah I meant image sequence. I just tend by default to think towards PNG and I hadn't even thought about the differences in images types.

I only very rarely end up using image sequences to render. I'd definitely go with Walter's experience on this.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 1:48:03 pm

Are you running Mavericks? Does it help if you disable Apple's new App Nap feature for After Effects?

(Select the app in Finder, Cmd+I for Get Info, make sure "Prevent App Nap" is checked.)

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 2:46:31 pm

Jeff, yes, I started rendering to an image sequence, tiffs, but the render would stop every few frames and takes a long time, also it would drop random frames, so in the end became a highly unpractical solution, as I had to be standing next to the machine the whole time, ready to restart the render, and sometimes quit and restart the program.

Walter, I'm running Mavericks, I wasn't aware of the App nap feature, I'll check it out right now. Although this problem never happened to me before, then again, I never had such complex project in this machine.

I moved all my footage to a thunderbolt drive, I was bringing everything from the server before, through a
gigabit network, I'll see if that makes any difference.

Thanks a lot again.


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 6:58:38 pm

So I moved everything to a thunderbolt drive and finally was able to partially render.
I had to turn off MP and enable the secret prefs to purge the layer cache every 1 frame.

Then I soloed a bunch of layers to flatten them into one single layer and replace the other ones but I can only render a certain amount of frames, then it stops (no error generated) and the queue says: Will continue from and a frame number. So I close my bracket to the next frame after I stopped and continue, but it stops again several times over, each time being able to render less and less frames until it can't render anything. The problem is when I look at my ram usage it's only between 5 and 37% out of 32 gb and like I mentioned I'm purging the cache every frame.

Can anyone suggest a course of action after this modification I made to my setup?

Thanks.


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EricBowen
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 8:07:28 pm

Where are you viewing your ram usage?

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 9:54:02 pm

At the bottom of the render queue, it says 5% (or whatever) of 32gb used.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 10:01:54 pm

> At the bottom of the render queue, it says 5% (or whatever) of 32gb used.


That is not a very useful number, since it only represents RAM used by one part of After Effects (the foreground application). This does not include background rendering processes, external analysis processes, memory requested by third-party importers, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 10:04:30 pm

Didn't know that. Thanks for the tip.

I sent the same project to my laptop, with half the ram but a different graphics card.
I was able to render with MP on, up to frame 162, then it stopped as it did on the other machine.

This is really weird.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 7, 2014 at 10:13:43 pm

Are you willing to upload the project to a file-sharing service so that I can grab it and try?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 8, 2014 at 1:17:37 pm

Absolutely, where do you want me to send it? I can use wetransfer if that's ok with you.

I'm guessing no footage, right?

Thanks,
D.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 8, 2014 at 10:57:09 pm

Sure, wetransfer is fine.

Only include footage if footage is required to reproduce the problem.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 8, 2014 at 11:23:43 pm

Great, thanks. At this point I don't know if the footage is the culprit or not. I'll send only the project at first.

To which email should I send the link?


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Todd Kopriva
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 8, 2014 at 11:26:33 pm

Try reproducing without the footage on your end first, so that I'm not wasting my time trying to reproduce a scenario that you can't make fail.

My email address is my last name at adobe dot com.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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David Cabestany
Re: 32gb can't render 4k?
on Aug 9, 2014 at 12:25:25 am

Ok. I'll send it Monday then, after testing.

Thanks.
D.


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