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Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.

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Joshua ChaulkWhats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 2:11:24 pm

First I'll list my specs:

Win 7 (64-bit)
16 GB Ram
Intel i7 (8 cores, not hyper threaded)
AMD Radeon HD 5700
No SSD's
After Effects CC(2014)


I am working on some animated cartoons and I find i spend more time waiting for ram previews than I do actually working! I've been fiddling around with the Memory & Multiprocessing preferences and this is what my current settings are:



Does Anyone have any different settings they would recommend? I am looking to optimize the ram preview specifically.

Also, does the settings here matter if I export my projects using Adobe Media Encoder?


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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 3:07:49 pm

16GB of ram is not enough for 8 Cores. You really need 2GB of ram per core/thread and atleast 4 to 8GB left for other programs. I would suggest moving to 32GB of ram atleast. I suggest setting the memory saved for other applications to 4GB. Set the ram per background CPU to 1.5GB and use what cores you can. Smaller comps should not exceed that most of the time. No this does not effect Media Encoder. AE 2014 has a very large ram profile so get as much ram as you can.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Joshua ChaulkRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 3:23:03 pm

So should I set my "CPUs reserved for other applications" to 0?

We were considering swapping out our C drive to an SSD to improve speed, but would you recommend a ram upgrade before an SSD upgrade?


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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 5:49:42 pm

Yes set the CPU reserved for other applications to 0. Definitely get more ram before an SSD if you want to utilize all of the threads in AE. The Ram preview is faster on a system with more cores if you use the multiprocessing for ram preview as well. Don't turn that off for ram preview unless you have to for something.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Dave LaRondeRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 6:15:48 pm

[EricBowen] "Yes set the CPU reserved for other applications to 0"

Wait.... "other applications" also includes minor considerations like the operating system. I don't know if I'd do that.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 6:42:16 pm

The OS moderates threads based on interrupt and priority. If another process needs to take cpu time it will interrupt based on priority. I have been setting these to zero for years and never has an issue with it since AE uses CPU's as background resource priority.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Brian CharlesRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 11:12:32 pm
Last Edited By Brian Charles on Jul 5, 2014 at 12:58:56 am

[EricBowen] "The OS moderates threads based on interrupt and priority. If another process needs to take cpu time it will interrupt based on priority. I have been setting these to zero for years and never has an issue with it since AE uses CPU's as background resource priority."

Are you saying that setting available CPU's to zero won't affect other application renders or processes? e.g. Premiere Pro, Media Encoder, Compressor etc?

Todd Kopriva of Adobe posted a warning regarding over-scheduling processors which seems to contradict what you wrote.

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2010/03/performance-tip-dont-oversched....





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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 2:43:34 pm

Premiere is a realtime application versus AE and AME which are not. If you launch Premiere while rendering via AME, AME will take far longer because Premiere will grab the CPU resources instead of leaving them for AE. AE is also a background render application and not realtime so it will just take far longer to Render out. However Premiere will not have as many resources available including ram and disk access and would be effected since it's a realtime application due to the realtime playback.

If you want the most performance with ram preview and render queue in AE then set the CPU left for other applications to 0. If you need to use Premiere then while it's render queuing then that can always be changed if the performance is not enough to playback realtime. However setting CPU's to sit idle when you only have 4 to 12 threads is not a good idea since AE requires the most processing and ram for it's work and is the largest time sync.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Brian CharlesRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 2:57:06 pm

Sorry Eric, my point was that setting the available CPU's to zero assumes that while After Effects is rendering there are no other processes competing for CPU time.

I frequently start a render then proceed to work on something else.



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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 3:11:19 pm
Last Edited By EricBowen on Jul 7, 2014 at 3:12:18 pm

No I listed above as to why you can set it to zero and still continue work. I did not assume that AE is the only application launched and even stated why and how it works. What I said was Premiere will be effected by far more than just the CPU processing and the system has to have all of the resources available for Premiere to function in Realtime. I never set the CPU to anything beyond 0 left and most of my clients work on other projects while AE is rendering. I wasn't the one assuming here. I have tested this far more than most and am fully aware how it works.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Brian CharlesRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 3:20:02 pm

Interesting, this has not been my experience at all. When I'm rendering a file that After Effects estimates will take a a few hours, I've found that when switching to work in Final Cut or similar the performance in the foreground application slows down when there are fewer CPU's available for other apps.

I'm on a 12 core MacPro with 64GB of RAM, OS 10.8.5 if that's relevant.



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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 3:26:33 pm

The application slowing down will always be the case because the CPU's are getting interrupted by the higher priority application. Scheduling is then deciding which threads are getting handled by what cores and when. However setting half the CPU's to left over doesn't change this that much. That means there are far less CPU threads for Premiere to start with since it's the higher priority app. However allowing the OS to moderate the threading based on Priority puts cpu processing threads to what is required for the higher priority application. Windows manages this fine. If OSX does not then that is specific to the GCD in OSX.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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David BraffRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Mar 15, 2016 at 6:04:18 pm

I realize I'm around a year and a half late to the conversation but I thought you might be interested to know... lately I've been having some relentless crashes while rendering. Couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Checked everything... researched... no dice. I thought it was weird cuz I've got a 4GHz i7... a fairly new GTX 770... and 16 gigs of ram.

I also had 0 CPUs reserved for other processes.

I said what the hell... I'll give the other processes a couple of CPUs and see what happens. Hasn't crashed since.


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Joshua ChaulkRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 7:13:04 pm

[EricBowen] " Definitely get more ram before an SSD"

I have heard people say that having a lot of RAM can actually slow down the computer when the RAM is not being used. And I don't always do video work here on this computer, I mostly work in Photoshop all day. So the only time I actually use my ram to it's fullness is maybe twice a week. Do you still think I should be upgrading RAM instead of the SSD? The SSD should improve render times as well am I right?


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Brian CharlesRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 3:17:52 pm

[Joshua Chaulk] "I find i spend more time waiting for ram previews than I do actually working!"

It is my experience that enabling Multiprocessing for RAM previews actually can actually slow down some RAM previews, hence the new option to enable Multiprocessing only for rendering and not previewing.

The speed of previews is affected by many factors, complexity of a composition, number and type of effects, how fast the source media can be loaded and processed. An SSD used for cache can improve performance significantly.



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Joshua ChaulkRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 3:53:45 pm

[Brian Charles] "It is my experience that enabling Multiprocessing for RAM previews actually can actually slow down some RAM previews"

So Your saying that I should check the box that says "Only for Render Queue, not for Ram Preview"
and that should increase my Ram preview speed? I'm not saying your wrong, But isn't the whole purpose of that option so that RAM previews are faster by utilizing the multi-core processor instead of just using the RAM?


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Brian CharlesRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 4, 2014 at 4:43:23 pm

[Joshua Chaulk] " isn't the whole purpose of that option so that RAM previews are faster by utilizing the multi-core processor instead of just using the RAM?"

The purpose of that option is to enable more cores/threads for any processing task After Effects has to do, so both Renders and Previews •can• be faster.

Since After Effects does this by spawning new instances, the time to spawn the instances can slow down the start of a preview – hence the option to enable it •only* for renders and not previews. Sometimes it is faster for previews to leave MP disabled.



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JP PelcRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 2:26:19 pm

Yes that's the purpose, but I've also found that enabling multiprocessing slows down my RAM preview significantly. Try disabling it and see how it works


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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 2:45:56 pm

Multiprocessing only takes longer when your ram preview is for very short segments and you have allot of CPU threads such as a dual Xeon. If you only have 4 to 12 threads then multiprocessing will definitely speed ram preview up most of the time unless you don't have enough ram for the system.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Joshua ChaulkRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 3:49:33 pm

Well Getting Back to the Original Problem, I have looked at and tested everything everyone has been saying and their have been multiple opinions.

Keeping in mind my computer specs I mentioned in the original post. I have actualy found that allowing 4GB of ram for other applications and totally turning off multi-frame rendering has been the fastest results for my RAM preview. I don't really get it but that has made significant improvements on my preview speeds.

What I am doing is just RAM previewing like 15 seconds or so at a time to see if the animations I made are how I want them and then I scrub forward and keep going. turning off the multi-frame rendering has made that happen like 5 times fast.

And since I export via Adobe Media Encoder to H.264, the render Queue speeds are irrelevant to me.


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EricBowenRe: Whats reccomended for Optimizing the Ram Preview specifically.
by on Jul 7, 2014 at 4:29:56 pm
Last Edited By EricBowen on Jul 7, 2014 at 4:31:46 pm

In order for Multiframe processing to work ideally you need enough ram per thread to render complete frames per thread so essentially you have 8 frames rendering at 1 time instead of 1 or 2. If you don't then there is far more CPU moderation involved as data is constantly re-cached to ram so the CPU threads can finish frame data. This add's significant latency to the process besides not rendering as many frames at 1 time as the system has threads. In this case it's better to single frame render where you only need enough ram for 1 or 2 frames while the threads split the data processing those few frames at any one time. This uses far less caching which can improve speed with lower amounts of ram. The trade off though is the render queue times are vastly longer. In your case that is not a concern but that is the trade if you don't have enough ram to support that many threads with multiframe rendering on.

The short segment time has to do with AE launching AE processes for each thread. That takes time for the OS and CPU to provision resources and start the process.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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