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AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output

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Chris Borjis
AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 19, 2014 at 10:02:52 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Jun 19, 2014 at 10:32:55 pm

No external audio or video preview with MAC AE CC 2014
through my black magic hardware running 9.7.7 BMD driver.


If I run AE CC, it works just fine using the same
mercury transmit settings enabled.



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Todd Kopriva
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 19, 2014 at 10:32:09 pm

See this for changes in how video preview works in the new version:
http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2014/05/video-preview-mercury-transmit-...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Chris Borjis
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 19, 2014 at 11:33:40 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Jun 19, 2014 at 11:36:32 pm

Ya, I have it setup properly (per the blog) and it doesn't output.
also tried toggling with /
no difference.

IT DOES WORK WITH PREMIERE CC 2014, just not AE

I'm running the latest Black Magic driver 9.7.7


I also have an exact identical mac pro in another
room same version of os x and CUDA with AE CC 2014,
only it has a Kona 3G card instead of black magic and that one does output just fine.

So something is going on with the BMD aspect of AE's output.



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Jan Vork
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Aug 25, 2014 at 7:58:13 am

Same problem here for more than a month now. Contacted both Adobe and Blackmagic Design, but neither came with a proper solution yet.

HD compositions do output, but SD does not output on HD monitor via Blackmagic nor via HDMI
It still works in AE CC, but not in AE CC 2014.

I think Mercury Transmit lacks the scaling features? Or it just does not address this the right way to the hardware?

Please come with a fix for this, since broadcasters are still requesting SD programmes.

http://www.jaydude.nl


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Aug 26, 2014 at 12:13:58 am

> I think Mercury Transmit lacks the scaling features? Or it just does not address this the right way to the hardware?

Mercury Transmit does include a protocol for scaling the output. The hardware must tell Mercury Transmit what size to scale to, then Mercury Transmit will do that scaling for each frame. AJA and Matrox take advantage of this feature in Mercury Transmit, Blackmagic does not.

In their newest drivers, 10.1.4, Blackmagic has added a new option for scaling the output in their Mercury Transmit settings, when it does not match a support frame size. You may choose to have the output centered or scaled. This is an option unique to Blackmagic, and does not utilize the automatic scaling functionality available in Mercury Transmit. You should try these drivers to see if this helps your workflow.


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Jan Vork
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Aug 26, 2014 at 8:27:40 am

Thanks for your reaction! Do you mean the 'Output unsupported frame sizes' setting? That is set to Black Magic Decklink Pro. But no image, when an SD comp is active.

http://www.jaydude.nl


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 19, 2014 at 11:01:08 pm

You should update your Blackmagic drivers to the most current, which are 10.1.1 for Mac OS.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support

Which Blackmagic device do you have?


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Chris Borjis
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 19, 2014 at 11:37:26 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Jun 19, 2014 at 11:45:27 pm

[Tim Kurkoski] "Which Blackmagic device do you have?"

Mutibridge-Extreme

BMD's site shows 9.7.7 as the latest available driver...almost a year old.

I see 10.1.1 for newer output cards.

Still though, seems odd Premiere CC 2014 outputs no problem but AE doesn't

UPDATE:

Looks like BMD's driver download section is broken.
driver 9.9.3 seems to be the last supported driver for Multibridge, I'll try that out.


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Chris Borjis
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 20, 2014 at 12:12:15 am

updated the driver to 9.9.3 and same issue.

works in premiere but not AE. if the mercury transmit
is now common between them, why it would not work?



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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 20, 2014 at 1:20:28 am

Two possibilities here:

1. While the applications use the same Mercury Transmit plug-ins, Blackmagic did make some bug fixes for After Effects. Since your card doesn't use the latest drivers, you won't have access to the bug fixes.

2. What are the dimensions, PAR, and frame rate of your comp?

Blackmagic doesn't support displaying comps that do not match a frame format that exactly matches one of it's supported video modes. ex. 720p59.94 is supported, but 720p29.97 is not. This is not a problem for the other types of devices we tested; other devices will scale the output to a supported video mode.

Try comps using different standard frame sizes and frame rates (SD in NTSC and PAL, 720p50/59.94, 1080p29.97, etc.). When you switch between comps, click out of AE to another application and back. This causes Mercury Transmit to refresh itself (assuming you have the Disable video when in background option enabled), and one of the bugs I remember Blackmagic working on had to do it not refreshing when switching between comps.


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Chris Borjis
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 20, 2014 at 4:11:06 pm

I was testing with NTSC D1 720x486 29.97
and 192x1080i 29.97



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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 20, 2014 at 5:00:35 pm

What happens if you try other comp sizes and frame rates? ex., 720x480/0.91/29.97 or 1280x720/59.94?

Can you post a screen shot of the Preferences > Video Preview pane? I want to see how that looks for your Blackmagic card.


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Chris Borjis
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 20, 2014 at 5:48:04 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Jun 20, 2014 at 6:15:15 pm

same thing, no video output with a 480 29.97 or 720P 59.94
and going away from cc 2014 to another application then back again
doesn't do anything on the external monitor.

video preview preference:





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Neil Elbagly
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 22, 2014 at 1:22:08 pm

I see the same problem with Mac OS 10.8.5, Multibridge Pro 9.7.7 and After CC 2014.
The latest driver available from BM for our Multibridge is 9.7.7!
This problem is with AE CC 2014. Premier CC 2014 is fine with the 9.7.7 drivers.
I checked another workstation that has Decklink 2 with BM 9.9.3 it didn't work as well.
I then updated on that workstation the BM driver to 10.1.1 and it works!


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Chris Borjis
SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 25, 2014 at 5:13:35 pm

Even though the black magic drivers have not officially supported
the Multibridge models since 9.7.7,

I downloaded 10.1.1 just now for my mac and the monitor output
in AE CC 2014 is now working.

Works perfectly fine in premiere CC & CC 2014 as well as Final cut pro 7.

I guess maybe they just decided to stop testing the drivers with
the multibridge family, but it does seem to work just fine.



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Neil Elbagly
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 25, 2014 at 5:19:29 pm

Thats great news!!
I hope it wont make any problems...


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Chris Borjis
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 25, 2014 at 11:33:27 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Jun 25, 2014 at 11:34:31 pm

[Neil Elbagly] "Thats great news!!
I hope it wont make any problems..."


Everything tested well, in fact the output is much
more responsive now than it ever was before.

I'm running OS X 10.8.3 on a 2009 Mac Pro Tower.
CUDA Version 6


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 25, 2014 at 5:24:34 pm

Thanks for reporting your success, Chris. I'll keep that in mind for other people who have problems with older Blackmagic hardware.


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Chris Borjis
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jun 25, 2014 at 11:37:14 pm

my pleasure!

thanks for all the hard work with CC 2014,
the people editing RED footage really love it especially.



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Chad Perkins
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jul 18, 2014 at 7:11:40 pm

FYI - I have a BM Intensity Pro; just updated the newest driver (10.1.2) today and After Effects and Premiere are both broken. Tested the setup with DaVinci Resolve, and it works perfectly.


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jul 18, 2014 at 7:41:54 pm

Chad, can you elaborate on "broken"? Does the Blackmagic device show up in the list of Mercury Transmit devices in After Effects and Premiere Pro? Does it output anything? What are the properties of the comp or sequence?

Have you tried rebooting or reinstalling the Blackmagic drivers, or rolling back to 10.1.1?


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Chad Perkins
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jul 18, 2014 at 11:34:02 pm

Yeah, that was a pretty terrible description on my part. Sorry about that.

I can select the Blackmagic device in the preferences in both Premiere and AE, but nothing previews on the monitor. This same hardware setup (and project file) worked fine with the QT previews in CC, and also with earlier pre-release builds in CC 2014. This sequence is a 4k sequence with R3D files. I haven't tried rolling back the BM driver, but I did restart, and I did try this with the 10.0 driver (which is the one it was working with in the CC and pre-release CC 2014 builds).


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jul 19, 2014 at 12:12:38 am

Does a 1920x1080 sequence or comp preview through the Blackmagic card?


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Chad Perkins
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jul 19, 2014 at 12:22:17 am

Testing it now...

... and why yes, yes it does work.


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Chad Perkins
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jul 19, 2014 at 12:24:22 am

Testing it now...

... and why yes, yes it does work. I also put 4k RED footage in the 1080 comp, and that previewed on the external monitor as well. Is there a trick to making the 4k comp work?

Thank you so much for your help by the way, Tim!


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: SOLVED Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Jul 21, 2014 at 5:33:52 pm

> Is there a trick to making the 4k comp work?

Does your card support 4K output?

Blackmagic does not currently output frame sizes via Mercury Transmit that do not match the card's native frame formats. This has been the case for a long time for Premiere Pro, and only started affecting After Effects with the addition of Mercury Transmit in After Effects CC 2014 (13.0).

In older versions of After Effects, you need to set the frame format for the card in the video preview Preferences, and After Effects scales the output frames as directed. With Mercury Transmit, After Effects (or Premiere Pro) automatically negotiates the frame format with the output device, and the scaling happens without the user needing to fiddle with settings. This works as intended with cards from other manufacturers, but Blackmagic has not yet implemented their side of the negotiation component, so no output occurs when there's a mismatch between your comp size and the card's supported frame formats.

Blackmagic has told us that they're working on adding support for this in a future driver release. Until then, the only workaround would be to nest and scale your 4K comp into the largest frame supported by the card, and use that for external video previews.


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Aug 26, 2014 at 6:59:22 pm

Other people have reported that using the newer Blackmagic Desktop Video drivers do work with the older Multibridge cards.

I do happen to have a Multibridge Pro myself, and tested the 10.1.4 drivers on Windows 7, and it appears to be working. A 720x480 frame displays, though I do need to enable the new "unsupported frame sizes" option in Blackmagic's Mercury Transmit settings dialog.

One suggestion on why NTSC sizes are not working in After Effects, but do in Premiere Pro, is that After Effects does not output interlaced frames. Blackmagic is very strict about their format definitions, and may not be accepting a 720x480 progressive frame as compatible with their defined interlaced formats. (This discrepancy is not a problem we have with the other card manufacturers.)


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Jan Vork
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Aug 27, 2014 at 6:43:41 am

Hi Tim, I use the latest drivers (10.1.4), a Decklink Studio 2 and PAL (720x576) on a Mac. So my situation is rather different than yours. I talked with Adobe about this in the week that cc2014 was released, but the issue still remains. Since AECC is working still, conlcuding the hardware is all right, I think Adobe must be able to solve the problem in CC2014.

http://www.jaydude.nl


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Aug 27, 2014 at 5:40:39 pm

Jay, I've explained this a couple of times, but let me reiterate.

All of Adobe's hardware partners, including AJA, Blackmagic, and Matrox, only support specific frame sizes and frame rates through their hardware. When you send their hardware a frame that doesn't match a supported frame size or frame rate, some scaling must be done on that frame. Even those manufacturers' own applications, like Blackmagic's DaVinci Resolve, need to do this scaling.

The Mercury Transmit API allows these hardware partners to tell After Effects and Premiere Pro what scaling should happen when a frame does not match a supported frame format. AJA and Matrox use this part of the API. Blackmagic does not. We have asked them to do so. Their most recent drivers do not, but does have those new, alternate scaling option.

Yes, Adobe could, in theory, resolve this issue by providing some sort of scaling control in After Effects (and Premiere Pro, and SpeedGrade...). With the old, QuickTime-based video preview architecture, such a control was present because it was a necessity. But with Mercury Transmit this is not necessary because the API we provide to the hardware partners already provides them control over scaling. The problem that you and other Blackmagic users are having is generated because Blackmagic chooses not to utilize these scaling options available in the Mercury Transmit API.

Adobe will continue to engage Blackmagic about this issue.


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jonah maddox
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Dec 4, 2014 at 10:53:49 pm

Hi Tim,

I can't seem to find a solution to this, but apologies if it has already been discussed.
I have a nasty little acer screen (1280*1024) attached via VGA to thunderbolt adapter into my mac pro late 2013, no black magic or external video cards. In the Premiere cc 2014 8.1.0 project I am cutting I was enjoying playback to this screen, no problem ever, and then one day this week, no updates as far as I know, no sequence changes (1920*1080 but it was also showing me video preview for 2k sequences) I have lost the video preview. I played around with sequences sizes and checked it in after effects where it still works but no luck in premiere. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jo


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Dec 5, 2014 at 1:51:43 am

Jonah, I don't know what's happened on your machine.

One thing to note is that neither Premiere Pro or After Effects will use a second monitor for video preview if the application's UI frame is on that monitor. So if you've stretched your workspace (either intentionally or un-) onto that monitor, you'll need to move it back to the primary.

Otherwise, I can only grasp at straws. I assume you've rebooted the computer already. A general troubleshooting step would be to reset Premiere Pro's preferences.

If that doesn't help, and if you haven't already, I would post about this on the Premiere Pro forum, either the one here or at Adobe.com.


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jonah maddox
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Dec 5, 2014 at 8:59:18 am

Thanks for the speedy response Tim, you solved it! As always, it has to be the most pathetic and embarrassing thing that fixes it...the UI was a mm into the second screen, moving it solved the problem. Cringe!! Thanks again


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Dec 5, 2014 at 9:18:23 pm

Thanks for the update, Jonah. Glad you got it working.


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jonah maddox
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Dec 7, 2014 at 4:49:54 pm

Hi Tim, this is a bit irrelevant but since we're communicating I wonder if you have heard of the new cc 2014 premiere crashing when scrolling in the timeline, a couple of colleagues have had this and mine was so bad i had to xml out and go back to cc. Any thoughts, need any info?
Cheers again,
Jonah


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Tim Kurkoski
Re: AE CC 2014 no BMD monitor output
on Dec 7, 2014 at 6:04:16 pm

Sorry, Jonah, I don't know about that issue with Premiere Pro. Best to start a new thread on the topic.


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