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Micheal BemmaAdobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 16, 2014 at 3:19:01 pm

Hello,
Been searching around, but I can't find much for a definite answer.
I have 2 quad core 2.83 xeon processors and 32 gb of ram.
with multiprocessing on, and 3gb to each processor
disable layer cache. Purge every 10 frames.
a 4k footage (just upscaled to test) 1 second of footage
3:26 to render.
Disable the mutiprocessing
it took 3:13 to render

My disk cache is on a SSD hd

Think i'm missing something.


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Walter SoykaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 16, 2014 at 4:09:23 pm

[Micheal Bemma] "disable layer cache. Purge every 10 frames."

Mucking with stuff in the secret menu can actually slow down your render times. While this was sometimes necessary in the olden days of Ae CS4 and prior due to memory limitations, it really shouldn't be necessary anymore.



[Micheal Bemma] "3:26 to render. Disable the mutiprocessing
it took 3:13 to render. My disk cache is on a SSD hd. Think i'm missing something."


Multiprocessing can take a long time to start up. On shorter renders, this can make multiprocessing take longer than rendering without multiprocessing.

On longer renders, the time savings of rendering multiple frames at the same time can far outweigh the time cost of starting up multiprocessing.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Dave LaRondeRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 16, 2014 at 4:57:29 pm

...and there's womething else, too: it's very common when using multiprocessing to assign 1/4 of your memory to other applications, and 1/4 of your processors as well. I think you're doing that, but can you confirm?

Other than that minor point, Walter nailed it.

I don't understand why multiprocessing is such a pain. With all the exceptions to the rules it makes one want to think, "Why bother with it at all?"

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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EricBowenRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 16, 2014 at 10:01:57 pm

What codec/format are you exporting to? Is this Windows or OSX?

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Micheal BemmaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 16, 2014 at 10:13:03 pm

Ok, to start.
made the comp longer (40 seconds) at 40k to test with 6 processors for rendering and 2 for background (3gb to each)
so still doing the multi processing, early results
after effects shows 9% of ram being used.
windows task manager averages 14% CPU usage.
Occasional burst up to 96-100% cpu, but not for more then a few seconds.
took off the check marks in the secret menu, purge to 300.
(not sure what the defaults are supposed to be)

Out putting to quicktime : cinepak (I think it's called)
100 quality

Be another 20 or so minutes before I can start the next render with out multiprocessors.

It's a dedicated render machine.
So no other programs running (besides the mandatory ones) so nothing stealing any processing.


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EricBowenRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 16, 2014 at 11:19:36 pm
Last Edited By EricBowen on Jun 16, 2014 at 11:21:51 pm

Try AVI lossless or download Lagarith and try that under AVI. I know PNG does not thread well at all right now in AE on Windows. I wouldn't be surprised if what your using doesn't as well. Some codecs don't thread as well as others. As a rule of thumb though, use AVI based codecs when possible on Windows with AE. Quicktime codecs that thread better or well include Pro Res, DNxHD, MP4, and I believe Jpeg 2000 though that encoding always takes a while. I believe Tiff and the other still based formats thread well. Tried most of them but cant remember if I tried all the others besides PNG.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Brian CharlesRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 16, 2014 at 11:34:49 pm

[Micheal Bemma] "Out putting to quicktime : cinepak (I think it's called) 100 quality"

I hope you mean Cineon, cinepak is one of the oldest and most lossy of all codecs.

Typical workflow would be to output an uncompressed format (e.g. Animation) and then compress using Adobe Media Encoder or similar software.



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Micheal BemmaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 1:02:10 am

It was the first codec that I tried that didn't have a issue with 4k.
redoing it now with Mov uncompressed (it's the format that I could need in the future).
see how this one works.
just cancelled and restarted.

Never thought the codec would matter for the processors running.


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Walter SoykaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 1:04:58 am

Re-reading this thread, I don't quite understand your methodology. What kind of footage do you have, what are your comp settings, what exactly are you doing to the footage in the comp?

I'm just trying to understand what it is you are doing.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Micheal BemmaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 2:04:18 am

It's a animated photo, with some text effects, particular fog.
originally a 1080, I upscaled it to 4k just to make it harder on the system.
I upgrade my system from 1 quad core xeon 2.83 to 2 of em, from 10gb ram to 32, so I'm trying to find setting to make it work well.

I apply for funding for indie films, if approved, I need to be able to transfer it to XDCAM, and the company near by wants it as uncompressed MOV to do the transfer.

Normally my source footage is .mts avchd, 24,30 or 60p.
Depending on what. then various effects.


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Micheal BemmaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 12:46:23 pm

Ok, on the render machine now.
Going to quicktime uncompressd 4:2:2
(i'll try avi lossless next)
a 40 second comp, with out multiprocessing
43:42
with multiprocessing (6 out of 8 processors)
30:34

I can't believe the difference in speed just to codec.

I wasn't able to render out things before, i kept getting memory errors (hench the secret menu), but I don't know the default purge frames


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Walter SoykaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 2:37:44 pm

[Micheal Bemma] "with multiprocessing (6 out of 8 processors)"

What are your multiprocessing settings? Some people set them too aggressively, not leaving enough free RAM or free CPU for the system operate well. Starving your system of RAM or overscheduling the CPU can result in slower renders, not faster ones.


[Micheal Bemma] "I can't believe the difference in speed just to codec."

It's possible you were spending more time actually compressing the output than you were rendering the frame.

You can get more information in the render queue about what the render is actually doing by clicking the disclosure triangle next to current render. The "Stage" line describes what is happening at any given moment. If you see a lot of time spent on "Compressing and Writing," you know that your render is bottlenecking at output.

See this image for a reference:



[Micheal Bemma] "I wasn't able to render out things before, i kept getting memory errors (hench the secret menu), but I don't know the default purge frames"

The default setting is 0, which never forces a purge.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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EricBowenRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 3:24:02 pm

Codecs are mathematical algorithms that process data and often compress it. The greater the compression, the more complex the algorithm. This directly correlates to the threading capability of the codecs most of the time. Mpeg based codecs especially mp4/avc have very complex algorithms to process along with partial frame data that has to be anticipated. This makes prediction much more difficult which limits threading capability. In other words the harder it is for the Player to predict data in codecs the harder it is for the application designers to multithread that processing. Then on top of this the players themselves have different levels of efficiency in threading/processing codecs/formats. For example Quicktime on OSX threads PNG great in AE. However Quicktime on Windows with AE does not. This means there are differences in the format library files. This directly correlates to the player and processing efficiency of that version.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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Micheal BemmaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 3:50:28 pm

Finally back to the computer, still haven't ran the avi loseless.

For setting
3gb ram reserved for other operations
29gb available for AE
2 CPU's for other applications, 6 for AE
ram per background 3gb each

unchecked all the secret menu stuff, set it to 0.

Been running it, (avi no codec) 8ish mins, it's spending about 50% of the time
on compressing & writing, about 30% blank, about 20% on other ones that flash too fast for me to read.
(estimated file size is 56.2 gb).

avi uncompressed won't do 4k. put it back to quicktime uncomp 4:2:2 and it's still spending about 50% on compressing and writing.

(and since i haven't said it yet, a big THANK YOU, to everyone, I don't post here much ,but I read here alot. I couldn't find an answer to this specifically. It really does help out alot having a great resource like you guys around! )


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Walter SoykaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 3:54:28 pm

[Micheal Bemma] "3gb ram reserved for other operations"

I encourage you to leave more RAM available to other apps. Try 8 GB.


[Micheal Bemma] "avi uncompressed won't do 4k. put it back to quicktime uncomp 4:2:2 and it's still spending about 50% on compressing and writing."

How about an image sequence? PSD and TIF might be good options. (You will get large file sizes, but since you're already using uncompressed, I know you're not afraid of that!)

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Micheal BemmaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 4:17:14 pm

i got about 200 gb free right now,
i can free it up to the 2tb if i need.
frame times
1 or 2 seconds noramlly,
average of 1
(with quick time 4:2:2)

(at the beginging of PNG sequence, and right now, it's bad.
average of 3 seconds per frame (just reread, you said PSD / TIFF)
I'll still run this for 5sih mins to see if it speeds up.
CPU usage 14%, ram is 8%

doing PSD now, about the same maybe 5% faster then quick time 4:2:2 (still average of 1 sec, but I see alot of 0 second frames)
CPU in the area of 80% (many peaks at 100, then drops to 50%, but stays at 100 more then at 50. after effects still says ram at 8%

Going to let this run out, then do a quicktime run, and see the total times for both.
But I think I have the setting fixed, and now using atleast some decent codec


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Walter SoykaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 4:21:16 pm

[Micheal Bemma] "(at the beginging of PNG sequence, and right now, it's bad. "

PNG uses DEFLATE or ZIP compression on the images. It's lossless and space-efficient, but it's SLOW.


[Micheal Bemma] "doing PSD now, about the same maybe 5% faster then quick time 4:2:2 (still average of 1 sec, but I see alot of 0 second frames)"

QuickTime is generally a bit slower than other formats because 64-bit Ae has to communicate with a separate 32-bit helper process to use the 32-bit QuickTime libraries.

With large image sequences, it's easy to get IO-bound quickly -- meaning the speed of your storage becomes the bottleneck. Balance is important in a workstation: fast CPUs with lots of RAM also want fast storage!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Micheal BemmaRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 5:06:55 pm

Next purchase might be a large SSD.
Right now my conformed drive is my operating drive C.
My SSD cache is D.
And my source / output is E.

A good size ssd for the output, can't hurt.

I like PNG for most things that I use. My brain just say P and sequence and filled in the rest :)

I only deal in 1080p right now, but I wouldn't mind dabbling in 4k. want to make sure i can do it (maybe not extremely well, but well enough to atleast be able to do it)

So PSD sequence was 27:03 to render out 40 seconds, 59.94 fps, 4k, a few effects.
nothing else difference, quicktime 4:2:2 8bit, took 22:19.


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EricBowenRe: Adobe CS6 Render Speed
by on Jun 17, 2014 at 5:52:38 pm

Check your ram usage with task manager. Don't rely on AE's reading. That does not include all of the ram AE uses. I believe that is limited to the player usage or the engine alone.

Eric-ADK
Tech Manager
support@adkvideoediting.com


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