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Mocha export data messed up in AE

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Piernicola Arena
Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 10, 2014 at 12:36:51 pm

Hi everybody,
I'm pretty new to mocha, but I've studied it quite a bit and tried some tracking of an iPad screen.
The goal is to put a cartoonish drawing onto it. Nothing fancy. I thought it would be pretty easy.

Everything works fine until I export data to AE, where tracking data slides a bit in the first part of the clip where there is more perspective change.
The weird thing is that in Mocha's preview the tracking is perfect even in that part of the clip…

So i'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.

Here's my workflow and specs:

Track in mocha (I tried both mocha Pro and Mocha for AE)
Set planar surface and check the grid.
Once everything is ok i copy to clipboard transform data and paste to a null in AE.
Reset the anchor point for the null
Position and scale my cartoonish drawing and parent it to the null.
Everyting works ok, but the first part of the clip (where the iPad is rotated towards camera) the tracking goes completely out of sync.
This problem didn't occur in Mocha pro where everything stays in sync throughout the whole clip…

I also tried exporting corner pin data.
If I apply it directly to the cartoonish image, everything works ok, but in this case I can't scale, move or rotate it, and i need to.

I'm running a Macbook pro retina, 16gb ram.
After Effects cs6
Mocha pro 3.1.1

Thanks to anybody that would help me with this.


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 10, 2014 at 4:10:00 pm

You will want to export Corner Pin data from mocha for screen replacements.

Inserts that drift across time are almost always caused by inconsistent attributes in AE and mocha - IOW, they have to be IDENTICAL. Check the following -
1) frame rates in AE and mocha
2) start times in AE and mocha (did you paste the data (in AE) at the first frame of the clip that you tracked in mocha?
3) screen resolution in AE and mocha
4) pixel aspect ratio in AE and mocha
5) duration in AE and mocha
6) additionally, ensure that your insert is the same dimensions as your comp - precomp the insert if its inherent dimensions are different from the comp.

You shouldn't need to apply transforms if you've used Cirner Pin tracking data.

HTH
RoRK
Latest AE Workshop - MoGraph Intensity - Shapes & Text

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE/ACI


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Piernicola Arena
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 10, 2014 at 4:24:05 pm

Thanks RorK!

I checked everything you suggested but everything was ok.

I know that drifting is usually caused by those kind of issues so I had the double checked in the first place.
In fact, if i export Mocha Shapes or corner pin data they look just fine in AE.

But corner pin data makes it harder to transform scale rotation and position of the insert, requiring precomping.
Is there any quicker way to do that?

For example, when i used transform data instead, I could paste them into a null and parent my insert to the null, so that insert's features (pos, rot, scale) were free for me to be changed as needed.

thanks again for your help!


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 10, 2014 at 4:33:31 pm

Are you replacing the entire screen on the ipad or inserting one or more elements into the an area on the screen?

HTH
RoRK
Latest AE Workshop - MoGraph Intensity - Shapes & Text

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE/ACI


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Piernicola Arena
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 10, 2014 at 4:36:24 pm

I'm replacing the whole screen.

I'm basically inserting a hand made drawing into an iPad.
Th ipad is hand-held by a girl that shows it to the camera.


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Piernicola Arena
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 10, 2014 at 4:42:39 pm

I also tried to insert my jpg directly in mocha preview in the layer properties-insert clip and THERE everything is ok. Perfect track.

but in AE the first part of the clip drifts. second part, where there's less perspective change, it gets better.


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Conrad Olson
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 10, 2014 at 9:22:35 pm

To do a screen replacement you really have to use a corner pin.

To get the image to fit correctly precompose it in a composition that is the same ratio as the screen you are putting it in. Do any animation inside this composition. Then apply the corner pin date to this whole precomp.

---

conradolson.com


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Piernicola Arena
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 11, 2014 at 8:45:51 am

Thanks Conrad.

I know I need corner pin to screen replacement, but that's ok if i want to insert something that is the same size of the screen.
but what if i track the screen and I want to replace it with a bigger one?
I mean, by precomping i can adjust position, scale and rotation as needed, but in the final comp I'm always just modifying the area of the tracked screen, I cannot go beyond that scale.

I also tried VideoCopilot corner pin_to_null preset, but didn't work for this job.

Any idea?


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 11, 2014 at 10:17:56 am

What are your (A1)composition and (A2) insert layer dimensions?

(B1) Have you precomped or nested the insert layer prior to applying the Corner Pin tracking data?

(C1) If you've answered yes to either part of (B1), then what are the dimensions that the precomp?

HTH
RoRK
Latest AE Workshop - MoGraph Intensity - Shapes & Text

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE/ACI


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Piernicola Arena
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 11, 2014 at 2:27:12 pm

What are your (A1)composition and (A2) insert layer dimensions?
composition is 1080p square pixels 24fps. Insert layer is a 500x386 jpg

(B1) Have you precomped or nested the insert layer prior to applying the Corner Pin tracking data?
yes


(C1) If you've answered yes to either part of (B1), then what are the dimensions that the pre comp?
dimensions of pre comp are 1080p square pixels 24fps

What if I send you a simplified version of the project? maybe you could have a look and find out what's wrong.
If it's not too much work for you.


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Conrad Olson
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 11, 2014 at 9:10:15 pm

Make your pre comp the same ratio as the screen of the iPad (1024x768 for example)

---

conradolson.com


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 12, 2014 at 12:23:25 am

1) Your precomp should be exactly the same size as your 'final comp' - you've got this.

2) The layer(s) in your precomp, that represent your insert layer, should not include empty pixels. IOW, they should be full screen. Scale the layer(s) so that they are comp-size - 1080HD. It's not clear if you have this - in fact, this may be your only issue.

In the future, look into using mocha's Align Surface feature. This feature allows you to apply Corner Pin data to AE layers that are less-than-comp-size. This precludes you from having to precomp+scale your insert layers. Another, perhaps even better advantage is that it allows you to retain the original aspect ratio of your insert layer.

HTH
RoRK
Latest AE Workshop - MoGraph Intensity - Shapes & Text

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE/ACI


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Conrad Olson
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 12, 2014 at 12:31:19 am

Damn it, I was thinking the wrong way around. Thanks Roland.

---

conradolson.com


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Piernicola Arena
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 12, 2014 at 9:26:09 am

Ok I got what you say.

But what if i want to insert something that is bigger than the screen, for example a pop-up graphics that comes out from the screen, or an hologram that projects out of the screen?

And what if i want to track the screen and insert something that takes only a small part of the screen?

What if i don't know the screen size or aspect ratio (because I'm tracking a card or a clip shot by someone else?

Sorry for bothering you with many questions! :-)


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 12, 2014 at 2:03:49 pm

[Piernicola Arena] "But what if i want to insert something that is bigger than the screen, for example a pop-up graphics that comes out from the screen, or an hologram that projects out of the screen?"

3D tracking is what you will require for these.

[Piernicola Arena] "And what if i want to track the screen and insert something that takes only a small part of the screen?"

Either transform or Corner Pin tracking data will work.

[Piernicola Arena] "What if i don't know the screen size or aspect ratio (because I'm tracking a card or a clip shot by someone else?"

As long as the insert layer or its precomp is the same size as the tracking/'final' then you should be fine. If need be, you can scale the insert layer in its precomp to more accurately suit its intended aspect ratio. Also, mocha's Align Surface retains the insert layer's aspect ratio.

@Conrad - No worries

HTH
RoRK
Latest AE Workshop - MoGraph Intensity - Shapes & Text

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE/ACI


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Piernicola Arena
Re: Mocha export data messed up in AE
on Mar 14, 2014 at 9:52:31 am

Ok thanks Rork for being so patient, accurate and really helpful!
Cheers


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