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Mac Lanpheremocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 2, 2013 at 8:03:12 pm

hi All,

is the new Mocha for AE (which apparently includes a 3D solver now) a competing software with the built-in After Effects 3D tracker?

or, do they do different things?

Thanks

Mac


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Todd KoprivaRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 3, 2013 at 12:19:47 am

When we made the 3D Camera Tracker in After Effects, we deliberately chose to make it as simple as possible, choosing to not include a lot of advanced controls that might be needed for a minority of tricky shots. We consciously decided to let those tricky shots be handled by more complex plug-ins and utilities, like The Foundry's Camera Tracker and the new tools in mocha Pro.

So, no, I wouldn't call these "competing" at all. They're meant for different things.

Imagineer and The Foundry make great camera trackers, and we recommend that you check them out any time that the simple 3D Camera Tracker built into After Effects isn't working for you.

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Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Mac LanphereRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 3, 2013 at 12:51:07 am

that's helpful, thanks Todd

if anyone wants to add some examples of when they decided to use which, that would be cool--it's getting confusing now with so many options out there

mac


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jim bachaloRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 15, 2013 at 2:36:52 am

Todd, i have a similar question but in regards to Syntheyes.
I need to track a dancers hands in shots that are both moving and locked down. I then need to import this 3d data into After Effects for use by TrapCode.
Is there any way the new built in 3D tracker will accomplish this, or would a package like Syntheyes be necessary?
Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Local is the new global


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Roland R. KahlenbergRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 3, 2013 at 4:05:57 am

I think it's best to distinguish between the two different mochaAE products. There's mocha AE CC (which ships with AE CC) and mocha AE V3.1 which requires an upgrade from mocha AE CC. More info here - http://www.imagineersystems.com/compare-products

Take note that mocha's 3D Camera Solver is only available in the upgrades (as far as AE is concerned) to mochaAE V3.1 and mochaPro.

There are a few mocha 3D Camera Solves found in this search -
http://vimeo.com/search/page:5/sort:relevant/format:thumbnail?q=imagineer+s...

One of the results is this - - which is a good example of 3D object tracking with mocha's 3D Camera Solves.

What is important to note is that AE's Camera Solves does not provide a viable solution for 3D Object Tracking, which is something the mocha does. Having said that, if an object moves rather slowly or subtle relatively to a camera move and its orientation then it is possible for AE to solve an object's 3D-ness with respect to its position and orientation.

FWIW, AE's 3D Camera Tracker is the go-to choice for 3D Camera Tracking as it does an extremely good job on most tracking tasks.

It's really up to you to work on or practice with as types of footage as your time and interest can spare.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE


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Mac LanphereRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 3, 2013 at 4:42:22 pm

very helpful; thanks RoRK


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Ross ShainRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 6, 2013 at 7:04:06 pm

Hi Mac,
There have been some good replies to this thread already, but to add a little...

mocha AE v3 & mocha Pro v3 have a 3D camera solve module that is a bit different than the 3D feature tracker found in AE and most 3D tracking apps. Most 3D trackers search all pixels, then the user selects which are valid track data.

The mocha camera solver is based on "user selected planar tracking". The difference is really in the workflow and "sometimes" the type of shots that you can solve. Where mocha can shine is on very difficult tracks (like tracking out of focus & obscured areas) or as Roland mentions, moving object solves.

The AE 3D tracker is really excellent for most all purpose 3D solving but as Todd mentions, does not expose the user to many advanced features found in more robust applications like Syntheyes or PFTrack, etc.

mocha's camera solve was designed to be very easy to use and to take advantage of the power of planar tracking. For years, customers asked for mocha to export 3D. The intent is not to compete with 3D tracking, but to offer an alternate methodology and approach. Sometimes this approach will be very fast and useful, but I do not believe that there is really any "one solution" for all 3D tracking challenges.

Lastly, if interested: mocha AE v3 exports to AE camera only, while mocha Pro adds FBX support to export to C4D, Maya, Nu ,Flame, etc.

Here you can find a recent tutorial on mocha 3D solver for Cinema 4D workflow:
http://www.imagineersystems.com/videos/mocha-pro-cinema-4d-exporting-3d-cam...

Best,
Ross

Ross Shain
Imagineer Systems
http://www.imagineersystems.com


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Mac LanphereRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on Aug 6, 2013 at 7:10:34 pm

hey there Ross,

thanks for the additional tips, I think they're all useful (sure others will as well)

M


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Mac LanphereRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on May 6, 2014 at 5:26:14 pm

Hi Ross,

here's a late question for you. Which software would you choose for the following shot, given Mocha AE and the After Effects 3D Camera tracker as your options:

a tripod tilt shot, where the camera starts pointed at the ceiling/sky, and tilts down until level w/ the ground and focused on the subject (the idea being to add some tracked text next to the subject).

Can Mocha AE do tilt/pan? or is that a Mocha Pro task?

Thanks again

Mac


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Mac LanphereRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on May 14, 2014 at 6:32:41 pm

in response my own question, I gave it a quick test, and the 3D camera tracker in AE did a great job. I tried with the free version of mocha and didn't get very far--so I'm not sure if it's a solution, or maybe I just wasn't pushing the right buttons.


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Ross ShainRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on May 14, 2014 at 6:47:05 pm

Sorry to miss your question. The free AE bundled mocha AE CC is a 2.5D tracker and can certainly track a tilt down. You will then get a 2D corner pin to match the perspective. It sounds like you wanted a "3D track". In this case, the AE camera tracker is great for basic camera moves.

mocha Pro and mocha AE v3 (not the Adobe bundle version) also have a 3D camera solver that works a bit different than AE's 3D tracker and could also handle a tilt down. This has been discussed in past threads, so I hope it helps.

Best,
Ross

Ross Shain
Imagineer Systems
http://www.imagineersystems.com


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Mac LanphereRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on May 14, 2014 at 7:11:29 pm

cool, thanks Ross

I was actually on CS6 when attempting the Mocha AE tracking... but I also was copy/pasting transform data, and not corner pin data, so maybe that was my mistake

mac


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Ross ShainRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on May 14, 2014 at 7:33:21 pm

Yes - Transform will lock the track data to Scale, Position, Rotation and Transform keyframes only.

Perspective (corner pin) is what you want for most screen inserts and to have text elements follow realistic motion.

Best,
Ross

Ross Shain
Imagineer Systems
http://www.imagineersystems.com


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Mac LanphereRe: mocha for AE vs AE 3D camera tracker
by on May 14, 2014 at 7:35:07 pm

ah ok--good to know :)

Mac


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