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Steve FordeCreative Cloud Q&A
by on May 7, 2013 at 10:12:28 pm

Going to put myself out there and answer questions as best I can here on the COW. No question is a bad one as my intent is to frankly get rid of some of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) that I have seen since we made the announcement. Also - i'm at a conference at the moment so my response time might be a little delayed - will do my best.

First - Connectivity

You don't run the apps in a browser. You don't need to store your media in Creative Cloud. With your subscription you install them the exact same way you did before, and work with them exactly the same as before. It will invisibly call home 1 time per month to find out if your subscription is still valid.

Obviously there may be situations where connectivity isn't present - at which point there is a current grace period of 99 days where everything works as normal until it can connect again. In fact - this will be expanding to an even longer period of time (180 days).

IF you work in an enterprise with zero connectivity - there are tools that come with enterprise licenses of Creative Cloud which make this process work and not require any internet access on the workstations.

More soon - have to go back to conference.

Steve Forde
Adobe Systems Inc.


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Angelo LorenzoRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 7, 2013 at 11:13:41 pm

Thank you for jumping into the forums Steve.

A few questions. I hear that, starting with CS6, you'll have access to all major versions of Adobe apps. Will there be a "rollback" install or will we be able to install an old version side-by-side?

What are the details on Creative Cloud for teams? I hear that old volume licensing use to include two installs per mac/pc per license (4 total) while the Creative Cloud license is two active installs across the board. Is this set in stone or will there be some flexibility for volume customers? If this is so, it basically doubles the cost for volume users.

During the keynote, there were hints that some CPU intensive features like AE's rotoscope refine edge may be processed in the cloud one day. Is Adobe's stance to have some fallback to the user's CPU? It would be a shame if some features were cloud connected round-the-clock.

For small volume/hobbyists, will there be any kind of activation tools for those who are deep behind firewalls or have limited/no connectivity? For enterprise customers it seems there is some wiggle room but it leaves a lot of people out.

Granted a change in business models shakes everyone up and I'm sure Adobe didn't come to this decision lightly. I also know it's Adobe's policy not to comment on any future business related matters but I hope Adobe takes customer feedback into account when it comes to possibly offering perpetual licenses again or some level of free availability so once paying customers can access archived projects.

I can only assume the "elements" versions of products will be beefed up to pick up the slack of those hobbyists or business people who open and use Adobe products rarely.
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Todd KoprivaRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 7, 2013 at 11:26:11 pm

I'll leave the questions about computation in the cloud to Steve, since I know he likes those questions. But I'll take the others:

> A few questions. I hear that, starting with CS6, you'll have access to all major versions of Adobe apps. Will there be a "rollback" install or will we be able to install an old version side-by-side?


It will work much the same as it does now, with you able to run After Effects CS5 and CS6 side by side. You could also run After Effects CS6 (11.0) and CC (12.0) side by side.

You can choose if and when to download and install each version.

> For small volume/hobbyists, will there be any kind of activation tools for those who are deep behind firewalls or have limited/no connectivity?


If you have an annual subscription, you only need to connect to the Internet once every several months. Specifically, the software tries to connect once per month; if it fails, it enters a grace period mode where it begins counting down the number of days before it _must_ connect or terminate the activation. The grace period for annual subscriptions is now 99 days; we're soon going to bump that to 180 days.

So, as long as you can connect briefly twice a year, you're fine.

> I hope Adobe takes customer feedback into account when it comes to possibly offering perpetual licenses again or some level of free availability so once paying customers can access archived projects.


If it's a paying customer that you're referring to, then why the need for free availability? Do you mean someone who used to pay and stopped? If so, then that person could pay a $19.99 single-application subscription for the month when they needed to restore use of the software. Or just use the 30-day free trial version, which still exists and is still fully functional.

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Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Ridley WalkerRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 7, 2013 at 11:49:42 pm

I'm pleased to read some reasoned discussion regarding the change to Adobe's sales model. Its understandable that many users are concerned, this is a substantial change to the way we've done business with Adobe over the last few decades.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that I won't own the software I use to create my own work, and therefor need to connect to Adobe for authorization to modify my own product. Though in practice this may not be a real issue as long as we can connect and Adobe maintains a policy of allowing lapsed subscribers to use the 30 day trial version.

My discomfort is amplified when I reflect on my experiences with Adobe's Customer Service – a real oxymoron. I've been on hold for hours, been disconnected, misdirected, done the on-line chat for hours-at-a-time without resolution. Customer Service doesn't talk to Sales and passes the buck. Sales don't talk to Customer Service so you're stuck in a loop transferred from pillar-to-post and back.

Todd and Steve's presence and contributions to these forums are the exception, they are open, responsive and very helpful. Todd and Steve, you should try contacting Customer Service and learn what most of us experience.

I'm sure I'll subscribe eventually, perhaps a bit reluctantly since I do feel Adobe has left us no other option for moving forward with their products. It does seem as though we're being corralled and prodded to work the way Adobe wants us to.

I've got my Illustrator '88 disk still and have purchased (and budgeted for) every upgrade to the CS Suite. The cost is not the issue for me as I'll likely save a few dollars, not owning the tools I work with every day – that rubs me the wrong way.


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Doyle LewisRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 8, 2013 at 1:51:36 pm

First I just want to say thank you Ridley and Todd for taking the time to explain these features. I love every feature the creative cloud has to offer. When I first heard about the cloud I was super excited that updates would now come throughout the year. That I could have my hands on the latest and greatest, the day that it came out! My problem is the feature it lacks, I.E. a perpetual license of any sort. I get that there is a grace period and I get that you can pay for an app you really need for $20. But as a young videographer with tons of student loans to pay. $600 a year, nearly double an annual upgrade in the CS model if i remember correctly, is far too steep. The $300 to $400 dollar upgrade a year was a reasonable model for me. It was hard, but reasonable and worth always having the software there for me to practice new techniques and improve my craft. So what i'm saying is I understand why Adobe is doing it this way. It makes great sense for them, it just doesn't make sense for me. If it were just me out there who felt this way then i would just say, "well that's a bummer for me" and I'd have to be okay with it, but the fact is, it is not just me. There are a lot of people who cant swing this sort of cash only to have their tools disappear after a year and 99 days. I like Adobe and I think they make the best products out there, I am just sad that i wont get the privilege to continue being their customer anymore.

Doyle Lewis, Assistant Videographer

thinkck.com


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Doyle LewisRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 8, 2013 at 2:21:36 pm

Sorry i meant to say Steve and Todd. Although Ridley your input was also helpful.

Doyle Lewis, Assistant Videographer

thinkck.com


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Greg AndonianRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 5:39:50 am

[Todd Kopriva] Do you mean someone who used to pay and stopped? If so, then that person could pay a $19.99 single-application subscription for the month when they needed to restore use of the software.

If they only need to open one app, that's fine. But what if they need to use more than one app? What if somone needs access to a Premiere Pro CC Project that has AE comps dynamically linked to it? Downloading the 30-day trial won't work in this case, since there's no Creative Suite available with the new versions.

I do not- repeat, DO NOT want to have to pay for a month of full-blown Creative Cloud just to make a few changes if something like this comes up.

I really wish Adobe would keep the Creative Suites going for people who don't want to do the cloud model. Aside from giving us a perpetual licensing option it would also give the Cloud users a way to access their old projects if they leave, by making a free trial available that has everything they need.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Todd KoprivaRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 4:52:57 pm

> If they only need to open one app, that's fine. But what if they need to use more than one app? What if somone needs access to a Premiere Pro CC Project that has AE comps dynamically linked to it? Downloading the 30-day trial won't work in this case, since there's no Creative Suite available with the new versions.


Yes, it would work. You could subscribe to just After Effects and Premiere Pro for this purpose.

Dynamic Link works between applications without requiring the suite, as of CS6.

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Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Greg AndonianRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 1:10:42 am

[Todd Kopriva] Yes, it would work. You could subscribe to just After Effects and Premiere Pro for this purpose.

I checked the membership plans, and there's no plan available that would let you subscribe to "Just Premiere and After Effects". There's the single-app plan, and then there's the all-apps plans.

Unless you're saying you can do two individual subscriptions at the same time, and suggesting that this could be done in a situation like the one I described. But if you do the single-app twice, just for one month, that's going to be 30 dollars for each app- so 60 dollars just to make a few changes. I don't like the sound of that one bit.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Jason JantzenRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 2:51:00 am

I think Todd is alluding to what is coming, not what's available now.

I'd love to see an a la carte kind of deal. Or even a "video cloud".

Jason Jantzen
vimeo.com/jasonj


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Todd KoprivaRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 2:57:45 am

No, Greg understood me correctly.

If I were in the position of needing to do work with the software but I had let my subscription lapse, I'd invoice the client for the subscription for that month, just like I would invoice for any other resource that I needed to do the work.

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Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Jason JantzenRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 3:01:29 am

I took some surveys a few months back that asked if I would be interested in something like a "video cloud membership" as well as a "design" and other variations. I thought it sounded like a great idea. So no future plans for discounted cloud plans where you choose what software you'd like to use instead of the whole thing?

Jason Jantzen
vimeo.com/jasonj


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Todd KoprivaRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 3:04:18 am

> I took some surveys a few months back that asked if I would be interested in something like a "video cloud membership" as well as a "design" and other variations. I thought it sounded like a great idea. So no future plans for discounted cloud plans where you choose what software you'd like to use instead of the whole thing?


Such a thing may happen in the future. It is not part of the current offerings.

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Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Dave LaRondeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 8, 2013 at 4:27:55 pm

Thank you for making yourself available for discussion, Steve. It's greatly appreciated.

I've had the chance to talk to a few other AE users in my home town about this matter. None of them have had the time to scrutinize the details, and I haven't either. But I will tell you this: they're all mad at Adobe. Even worse, they don't know if they TRUST Adobe any more. I'll try to discuss the reasoning.

I heard a couple of different metaphors used about the announcement.

First, the electric utility metaphor.
I'll use the home office in San Jose as an example.
Where does Adobe in San Jose get its power from? PG&E.
Does it have a choice where it gets its power? No.
So it's a monopoly? Yes.
Well then, what's to stop PG&E from raising its rates? The state of California has a public utilities board that acts in the public interest.

Now: who makes the industry standards for certain types of multimedia software? Adobe.
With the new cloud subscription model, do users have a choice in how they procure their software? No.
So it's a monopoly? If you want your own, perhaps out of date but always-functioning copy of it, yes.
Well then, what's to stop Adobe from raising its subscription rates?

(Insert sound of crickets chirping here)

The phrase, "the marketplace will determine that" sounds a lot like a temporary platitude to skeptical people. Latin may be a dead language, but the term, "caveat emptor" is very much alive, I assure you.

The next metaphor: the drug dealer.
You must be aware of the stereotypical image of a shady-looking guy who lurks around schools and who hands out free samples of his wares. When the gullible kids who took him up on the sample now return to him in desperation, they pay through the nose.

At least one person I know now likens Adobe to that shady guy.

Okay, it took better than 20 years in some cases to get people hooked to Adobe software, but now they are. But in all those 20 years, they OWNED their installation disks... let's not quibble with licensing, they had 'em in hand and stored in a safe place. If disaster struck, they could reinstall and limp by.
There was a certain peace of mind in that knowledge. As of a couple of days ago, that peace of mind no longer exists.
Sure, if disaster strikes, the subscription system will have protocols a user can follow to get up & running again. If Adobe follows true to form, they'll be buried some place on the web site, and finding them may require a 15-minute search, but they're there. Sure, future versions of AE -- and probably other Adobe products as well -- will allow users to backsave to CS6. But how long is THAT going to last? There are no guarantees: think 128-bit processors, for starters.
And there can be NO peace of mind and NO guarantees about subscription rates rising to "pay through the nose" levels.

Caveat Emptor again.

When Adobe chose the path of a vastly-increased customer base for its software, it became software for Everyman. Professionals. People who still run Windows NT. Occasional Users. Hobbyists. The Curious. Artists and high school kids who aspire to become practitioners. People who many only use ONE Adobe application: not a half-dozen or more. And what happens when you go changing a basic software distribution paradigm on Everyman? You get a lot of pushback. Whether YOU think it's justified or not, it most certainly is in the minds of the users.

This paragraph is a personal observation: frankly, I'm stunned that Adobe Marketing people apparently did not anticipate such a reaction.... or that high-level management chose to ignore the warnings from the marketing folks. High-level management may have also intimidated the marketing folks into parroting that things would go smoothly. It wouldn't be the first time it's happened in Corporate America: think about the Ford Motor Company in the mid-'50's and its ill-fated Edsel model.


On the other hand, a company like Autodesk chose to limit its customer base to qualified professionals, who had to pay through the nose from the get-go. If Autodesk chooses to change a basic software distribution paradigm, its user base is far more amenable to it and far less likely to complain. The complaints that DO come in are typically more thoughtful and well-reasoned, and probably contain certain kernels of overlooked truth.

The common complaints from Everyman? "Messy" would be a good adjective, I think.

Here's another seemingly-irrelevant voice chiming in: Apple Computer, Inc. of Cupertino, California. It's the epitome of the Everyman concept. Think about all the no-brainer, limited-scope, limnited-utility iSeries of iApplications that are either: 1) already on the device or 2) easily obtainable and upgradable at the iStore. 'Twas ever thus: Apple hasn't changed a thing in its software distribution paradigm.

Ah, but Apple did indeed stray from the iDistribution paradigm with something near and dear to the hearts of certain people on the Creative COW: its Final Cut suite of products. Products that spanned a wide variety of user populations. Products that worked not flawlessly but well in earning a living. Products that brought a certain peace of mind with them, personified in the installation disks. I presume you're aware of the controversy surrounding FCPX, because Adobe doubtlessly profited from it.

And so what does Adobe do? It pulls an Apple and changes a basic paradigm. In doing so, it created skepticism, doubt and mistrust where where it barely existed a few days ago.

And that's my report from a small number of people in a small geographic area in the center of the USA. I hope you find it enlightening. If the folks with whom I have spoken are any indication, the term "Damage Control" is at the top of my mind.

The troops aren't happy, Steve.....

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tom DaigonRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 8, 2013 at 4:33:31 pm

Very nicely stated Dave. Current polls and petitions support your perceptions of the situation.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Ridley WalkerRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 8, 2013 at 5:07:32 pm

The polls I've seen don't represent large numbers of people. The The Toolfarm poll has been running since January and hasn't attracted large numbers - only a few hundred responses. The poll at change.org is currently around 2,000.

If Adobe's numbers are accurate, 500,000 current CC subscribers, those 2,000 petitioners represent fewer than .04% of the subscribers who have already voted with their wallets.

There are grumbles on other forums (http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/applications/index.html#d08may2013), but there are also many advocates for the CC model. Walter Biscardi, among others, is happy with it. Seems like its the one-and-two person shops that are most upset.

I'm not happy about this change in policy either, but it would appear that Adobe has the market on its side.

Compared to the FCP firestorm, this looks like a tempest-in-a-teapot.


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Greg AndonianRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 5:57:29 am

[Ridley Walker] Walter Biscardi, among others, is happy with it. Seems like its the one-and-two person shops that are most upset.

FWIW, I liked it too, when I knew there was a permanent option to fall back on. Now that it's gone, I don't find it very appealing.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Steve FordeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 8:02:56 am

Am going to chime into this thread more - just at a conference and time constrained. More tomorrow.

Steve Forde
Adobe Systems Inc.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 3:19:47 pm

Thanks for monitoring this thread, Steve. I get the notion you didn't anticipate this kind of reaction, whatever the reason might be.

Here's another thought about this seemingly unforeseen pushback: if a groundswell against the subscription model crops up, Adobe may not be adversely affected by the small reduction of the user base, but it may create an opening in the market for other software developers to launch Adobe-like products.

Somewhere on the planet in a fine academic institution -- in London, Berlin, Boston, Calcutta, Tokyo, Palo Alto, wherever -- small groups of very smart, very capable and very energetic people exist. As an intellectual exercise, these groups may have developed software that do the same things as Adobe products.

They're aware that if they don't want to face lawsuits, they need to develop their own algorithms and write their own code for their Adobe workalikes. I don't think it would be difficult for them -- I suspect there is code in AE that hasn't been touched since version 3, when the application started really working like today's AE.

If these groups see a sufficiently-large opening in the user base, what would stop them from either offering their work as open-source (think Blender) or actually selling it as a viable alternative but with a permanent license?

Sure, at first these applications wouldn't contain the full feature sets of the originals, but who actually uses all the features in a given application? Okay, Todd Kopriva does, but it's his job. Furthermore, there's nothing that says features couldn't be added in subsequent versions.

These groups may even conspire to create software structured to work seamlessly with one another. They'd be starting from scratch, and wouldn't have to cope with forcing very different products work together -- products acquired over the years from very different developers -- as Adobe has done. From that point of view, they'd have superior products to Adobe's.

It took Adobe something like 30 years to get to its position, and I imagine it was pretty slow going at the beginning. Would it take these groups a similar amount of time to carve out a small, significant, but growing niche for themselves? I don't think so.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Steve FordeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 3:42:03 pm

Dave L - if you're interested in a 'discussion' I'm in. I'm happy to engage in a dialogue about any component and give my point of view.

What I will not do is subscribe to idle speculation, fear mongering or a general desire for scandal. I will just simply say that we feel very strongly that what we are doing is the right move for both Adobe and our customers - end stop.

I respect your opinion to disagree. Ultimately, you as our customer are the final judge and will vote with your wallet.

Steve Forde
Adobe Systems Inc.


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Ridley WalkerRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 3:17:32 am

[Steve Forde] "What I will not do is subscribe to idle speculation, fear mongering or a general desire for scandal. I will just simply say that we feel very strongly that what we are doing is the right move for both Adobe and our customers - end stop.
"


I'm interested in knowing whether the concerns raised on the MacPerformance Guide blog are legitimate – or is this some of the fear mongering you refer to?

I have no desire to spread rumours or falsehoods regarding CC and the subscription plan.

I understand that Adobe would not have made this change if it did not consider it the appropriate business decision. I don't think the sky is falling but would like to understand all the implications of subscribing to the CC.


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Todd KoprivaRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 3:21:21 am

Ridley, could you ask a specific question so that we know what we're responding to?

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Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Ridley WalkerRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 3:52:44 am

[Todd Kopriva] "Ridley, could you ask a specific question so that we know what we're responding to?
"



The MacPerformance Guide blog raises many concerns about the legal agreement. He provides his own interpretation.

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement....

According to his interpretation of the agreement (ie not mine) Adobe can refuse service for any reason it deems fit with no legal recourse on the part of the subscriber, can raise the cost of subscription at any time without notice, can use any work you store in the cloud for its own advertising purposes without compensation to the creator and much more. Is this correct?


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Dave LaRondeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 1:35:23 pm

[Steve Forde] "...What I will not do is subscribe to idle speculation, fear mongering or a general desire for scandal."

Frankly, I didn't even expect a response to my speculative remarks. I doubt that you possess a crystal ball, and it is the rare company official who speculates in public. I would be surprised to learn that the topic I raised had NOT been considered by Adobe, but speculation among coworkers on any topic remains both proprietary and private.



[Steve Forde] "...I will just simply say that we feel very strongly that what we are doing is the right move for both Adobe and our customers - end stop."

Very well. Then one of your customers has a couple of fundamental questions.

As a longtime AE user at my workplace, I sensed a difference in the markets Adobe sought to reach with the introduction of the Creative Suite. In a previous post in this thread I referred to it as "software for Everyman".

A one-man operation I know thinks of the Creative Suite's Production Premium variant as a post house in a box: software for Everyman. He has a day job, but he enjoys working with the software. He likes puttering with it. He makes a little money with it, enough to take the family out to dinner occasionally while saving up for future expenditures. However, he doesn't have time for the business volume that would justify every single upgrade. No upgrades, no money for Adobe.

A friend teaches Photoshop classes at the local community college. A surprising percentage of students there are all-business and no-nonsense: they want their degrees, they strive for good grades, and they want to get into the workplace ASAP. They also throw dimes around like manhole covers.

A few years ago, the school purchased Photoshop CS3 for its handful of classroom machines. Even with an academic discount, it was a budgetary stretch. You doubtlessly know more about Photoshop's universality than I do. I'd call it software for Everyman. A number of enterprising students purchased academic versions and used them at home for the classes. When done, they then unregistered the software and sold it to incoming students. This community college doesn't blaze technical Photoshop trails, it teaches basic skills every user should know cold for an entry-level job. Thus, the school still uses CS3 and outgoing students still sell the disks to the incoming ones. Again, no upgrades, no money for Adobe.

These are two different examples of the software for Everyman concept, and they're both small potatoes in Adobe's view, I imagine. Perhaps even insignificant. Since both represent only rare opportunities for Adobe to make income, they're arguments for a different revenue model such as a subscription system, however minor that argument may be in the grand scheme of things. But in both cases, the new subscription model is a new burden on the users.

The one-man shop who gets two or three post gigs a month now has to include the subscription cost into the overhead if he wants to stay current. Will he price himself out his already-tiny niche? Does he forego a night of family fun in favor of the subscription? Or does he say to himself, "Well, it was fun while it lasted," and just pack it in? The community college teaching Photoshop basics has to ask itself if it's really worth subscribing when it already owns software capable of the basics. But if it does subscribe, it's fruitless for the student on a ramen-noodle budget to buy that often-reused CS3 disk for ten bucks. Instead, s/he faces an additional monthly expenditure to work at home on a version of the application with features that probably won't even be covered in class.

Now, I told you these stories to preface these fundamental questions:
Is it truthful to say that Adobe has re-identified who its customers are... and who they are NOT?
Is my perception that Adobe's new subscription model reflects a migration from a "software for Everyman" concept to a "software for a more select clientele" concept even close to being accurate?

Your clarifying comments are welcome.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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marcus lyallRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 1:15:37 pm

Adobe seem to have spent a huge amount of time convincing the post industry that it's a viable proposition for larger projects and professional workflows.... Only to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

It would be really nice to have a little product stability in Premiere and AFX in order for us to make some decisions about whether it's worth rolling out to our whole business.

We've just got to the point where we've settled on Premiere as our primary editing package, despite it's stability issues. It's just not as stable as FCP classic was.
Premiere still a bit unstable. Would be nice if it didn't crash so hard.
Would be better if I didn't have to pay a monthly subscription on top of my 3 CS6 licenses to have this 'feature.

Also, Multiple CC licenses need to be able to be administered from one account.
So I don;t have to set up dummy accounts for freelancers.
Dunno if you can do this at the moment.

Great innovations coming from Adobe. Premiere and AFX looking better than ever....
Maybe just leave the license innovations a while until the market is truly captured?



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Ridley WalkerRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 2:36:51 pm

This really made my hair stand on end.

The legal agreement for CC is Draconian. They require you Date of Birth, can raise the price at any time without warning and there is no guarantee of continued access to the product or service.

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1-Adobe-birth-date.html


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Dave LaRondeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 2:47:17 pm

Ridley, if that bit on Macperformance is really true -- and I don't know that for a fact -- I would agree with you. And I don't have much hair to stand on its end.

If it checks out, it would seem that Adobe is approaching the same level of insensitivity displayed by Apple in the FCPX fiasco. It's ironic to think that not very long after the FCPX launch, Adobe began to position itself as the kindly, helpful and responsive company that Apple apparently no longer was going to be.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jim ScottRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 3:35:29 pm

Dave, concerning your first post above you made a comment that I have seen expressed by several others:

"Sure, future versions of AE -- and probably other Adobe products as well -- will allow users to backsave to CS6. But how long is THAT going to last? There are no guarantees: think 128-bit processors, for starters."

I recently had an email conversation with Kirsten Harris, Director, Adobe Global Services, in which she said the following:

"While the new After Effects and Premiere Pro CC don’t allow to save files in a CS6 format (Photoshop and some other applications do), a project created in CC can be opened in a newer versions if you later renew a monthly or annual membership. This has always been the case for our applications and isn’t new to the Creative Cloud."

So then, according to Adobe we will NOT be able to open AE and Premiere Pro CC project files in CS6. It is apparent once again that a subscription will have to be maintained/renewed in order to work with any projects created in the new Creative Cloud versions. The fall back of having a perpetual license of CS6 is essentially useless (at least for AE and Premiere).

Hope that helps clarify what we all see as an important aspect of this conundrum.



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Steve FordeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 3:47:56 pm

"While the new After Effects and Premiere Pro CC don’t allow to save files in a CS6 format "

This is slightly incorrect. Ae allows you to save one version back with each version. Ae CC will allow you to save a .aep in CS6 format.

Also - CC members will have access to all versions of the products starting with CS6. In other words - it's 2018 and you can download and install Ae CS6 or any version in between.

Steve Forde
Adobe Systems Inc.


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Jim ScottRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 4:05:41 pm

Thanks for the clarification Steve. But as CC versions change (ie., a CC3 two years from now) won't that mean that any projects created in them can't be opened in CS6? Or will we have to keep "back saving" until we have saved it in CC1 so that it is usable in CS6?

Thanks



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Todd KoprivaRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 4:58:00 pm

> Thanks for the clarification Steve. But as CC versions change (ie., a CC3 two years from now) won't that mean that any projects created in them can't be opened in CS6? Or will we have to keep "back saving" until we have saved it in CC1 so that it is usable in CS6?


We are intending to have the command to save back to CS6 in the next several versions of After Effects.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Jim ScottRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 6:45:40 pm

"We are intending to have the command to save back to CS6 in the next several versions of After Effects."

Thanks for further clarification Steve.



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Chris PettitRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 14, 2013 at 3:51:44 am

Am I the only one that finds "...intending to have....next several versions..." to completely non-commital?

Frankly you just answered the question, indirectly...


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Dave LaRondeRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 4:12:05 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Steve Forde also contributed information that AE CS7 -- I guess that's what they call it -- will be able to backsave to CS6, and that it's Adobe's intention to retain that ability.

As a Final Cut Pro and AE user, I recall users' mad scrambles to buy any remaining Final Cut Suite 3 disks: in many cases, their livelihoods were tied to software that was suddenly EOL'd with no warning.

Adobe's subscription model may not be an absolute parallel situation, but I do wonder if Adbobe now sees a brisker business in CS6 installation disks.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jason JantzenRe: Creative Cloud Q&A Legal Agreement!
by on May 9, 2013 at 6:10:18 pm

It seems to me with the CC subscription model allowing Adobe to update the software on the fly, and no need to call it cs# any longer, why the need then for the ability to back save? In theory, AE version 11 is the last version number. No need to call it version anything since you're essentially strapping on new parts from to time. Overhauling the interface and what not would just be update #.#.# with a date attached maybe. In order to open up old files...well you can already do that today with the newer versions. And since nobody will be running older versions, there's no need to back save unless someone hasn't updated yet, in which case you tell them to get off their thumbs and update already.

Jason Jantzen
vimeo.com/jasonj


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Atticus Culver-ReaseRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 9, 2013 at 6:10:29 pm

Thanks for being willing to answer some questions, hopefully I'm not too late to the party with this one. Personally I'm not one of the people who thinks the sky is falling due to the move to Creative Cloud, and I think even with the new pricing and subscription model that Adobe's tools are still a great value and I know I'll be moving to CC once it's released. But what I'd like to hear is why you think the Creative Cloud model is good for your pro video users?

It's pretty obvious that the CC model benefits Adobe in a number of ways, but I'm not convinced that it benefits your users much. Getting access to all the Adobe apps that I don't need doesn't strike me as much of a benefit. You threw in some cloud storage... okay that's nice I guess, but I already have Dropbox. Behance integration... nobody cares. Bug fixes and new features will get rolled out faster... well maybe they will, but there's no guarantee, and we now have to pay whether we think the new features are any good or not if we want to keep working. It just seems that even though I like and trust Adobe and have generally thought nothing but warm happy thoughts about your company over the nearly 20 years that I've been using your products that I'm not seeing what the upside is for me in the switch to the CC subscription model, and I'm surprised at that.


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Erik LindahlRe: Creative Cloud Q&A
by on May 10, 2013 at 5:51:40 am

I've got a few pretty straight forward questions:

1. Creative Cloud allows you to use two installations on two different computers per license concurrently. A question here though is with a Creative Cloud for Teams license if you are allowed the above but for two different individuals on two different computers with-in the team?

2. The pricing seems quite off in Sweden. In th US the price for a team licens is $840 per year, in Sweden roughly $1200 per year. Why the insane premium over here? Doesn't make any sense to me.

3. Is it possible to download a .dmg of each install? This would be great for people with random acess to Internet or slow connectivity.


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Roland R. KahlenbergPlease use the appropriate COW Forums for Adobe CC issues/Qs
by on May 10, 2013 at 11:42:28 pm

There are TWO new forums created specifically for such threads/posts -
http://forums.creativecow.net/adobecreativecloud
AND
http://forums.creativecow.net/creativeclouddebate

I believe we'll all get better mileage at the appropriate forum. Let's stick to AE CC posts, for any cloud threads/posts in this forum.

Cheers
RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE


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