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Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider

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Tom DaigonCloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 1:51:43 pm

Adobe Cloud enthusiasts.Think about this.

Now- $29.95 monthly Introductory price
Soon- $59.95. Standard price
Future-$69.95? 89.95?

Once you buy in you have no choice but continue.If you stop your software is deactivated.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56:19 pm

Maybe we can consolidate this discussion into your other thread:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/938680


I've responded there.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56:40 pm

And if you think this price boosting cant happen, IT ALREADY IS.



Tom Daigon
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 2:59:04 pm

Walter , I started this new thread since its more focused on the pricing conventions of the Cloud as opposed to anything having to do with the perpetual license.

Tom Daigon
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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:02:13 pm

You cross-posted this exact topic on the Premiere forum, too. I'm pointing there since there's already a good amount of discussion there, and relatively little here.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:05:27 pm

Walter, there are folks who dont read both forums. Some just read PrP and other just read AE. Lets not assume everyone reads in the same manner you do. :D

I think it appropriate that each venue has the opportunity to comment on the topic.

Tom Daigon
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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:11:48 pm

[Tom Daigon] "Walter, there are folks who dont read both forums. Some just read PrP and other just read AE. Lets not assume everyone reads in the same manner you do. :D I think it appropriate that each venue has the opportunity to comment on the topic."

I'm not assuming that people read both forums -- I'm assuming the opposite, and I'm telling the people here that there was already a vibrant conversation going on there.

Licensing certainly concerns both Ae and Pr users, but cross-posting in different forums splits the conversation. Consolidating grows it and exposes more people to more POVs.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:00:30 pm

This is not price-boosting. This has been the deal since Creative Cloud was introduced.

You pay a lower price if you commit to a year than if you only commit to a single month.

If you're using Adobe apps full-time, go for the yearly plan -- it's cheaper. If you just need to add a seat for a short-term project, get the monthly plan -- it's cheaper.

Adobe is offering options to keep user costs down, and I think that's a good thing.

But really, let's try to keep this to a single thread. There's a lot of overlap between these two forums.

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/938680

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:03:20 pm

[Tom Daigon] "Once you buy in you have no choice but continue.If you stop your software is deactivated."

Oooh, now there's an attractive selling point: give up on it, and you're cut off entirely. Makes me want to jump right on it.

I have other issues with the cloud: data security. My across the street neighbor is a data security expert for a government contractor, and I asked him point-blank: "How secure is data on the cloud?"

His reply: "It isn't."

And it makes sense: if Fortune 100 companies get hacked by the Chinese and North Koreans -- and Fortune 100 companies can afford all the data security they need -- how secure is the cloud for a normal independent contractor working on a sensitive project for client who wants no mention of said project until it's ready?

Cloud, schmoud.

I say the cloud's like walking around Manhattan wearing a sandwich board with your social security number on it.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:06:51 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Cloud, schmoud."

LOL. Thanks for the early morning laugh Dave :D

Tom Daigon
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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:24:16 pm

Glad you got a chuckle out of, Tom, but my point is this:
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

How many times do clients hand cel phone video to an AE practitioner expecting miracles? Hey, it's HD, right? So why can't you pull a photorealistic chroma key from it? Why doesn't it look as good as the stuff from the outfit we used to hire for $5K a day? And how come the audio sounds bad? Why can't you fix it?

The cloud is one place where I think Adobe jumped prematurely into the deep end of the pool. In its haste, it grabbed the lead weights but not the rest of the scuba gear.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:26:24 pm

Dave, I am in complete agreement with your POV.

I was just thanking you for your humorous phrasing.

Look at my postings. We are of the same mind on this topic.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:15:18 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "I have other issues with the cloud: data security. My across the street neighbor is a data security expert for a government contractor, and I asked him point-blank: "How secure is data on the cloud?" His reply: "It isn't.""

Dave, Creative Cloud is (IMHO) a bit of a misnomer -- it calls home to authenticate every month, but the applications are running locally on your own computer, and your files stay on your own computer unless you explicitly upload them yourself to cloud storage.

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:32:31 pm

I'm with you Walter - in my opinion, Adobe's term Creative Cloud is nothing more than marketing jargon. It's a way to differentiate it from say, Autodesk, who calls their plan Autodesk Subscription - catchy, eh? They then go on to explain "Subscription with Cloud Services", which puts a tighter description of what's entailed there and what it actually has to do with the Cloud.

I think Adobe should take a page from Autodesk's approach - then we wouldn't have all these speculative posts about who's getting screwed, before anything happens. The Cloud is falling...the Cloud is falling...not net...

And personally, as I've always said in these forums (fora?), I will always purchase the backup discs for as long as it's possible. I like having them on my desk - so I'm with Dave there...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:51:21 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "...I think Adobe should take a page from Autodesk's approach - then we wouldn't have all these speculative posts about who's getting screwed, before anything happens. The Cloud is falling...the Cloud is falling...not net..."

I guess I'm the pessimist in the group here. Adobe's and Autodesk's cloud services are both iffy, and both too much, too soon.

I don't think there's ANYTHING at the moment that would prevent a malicious, vindictive and talented group of individuals from corrupting cloud software updates from either company, leaving a lot of users in a world of hurt.

Which is why I will never give up my CS4 Production Premium installation disks, even if I have to run the software on a legacy system. Antiquated software is better than no software at all, and that's the danger both Adobe and Autodesk face, I think.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:00:09 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "I don't think there's ANYTHING at the moment that would prevent a malicious, vindictive and talented group of individuals from corrupting cloud software updates from either company, leaving a lot of users in a world of hurt."

Creative Cloud is not like traditional software-as-a-service cloud offerings. It's running locally on your computer, and you choose what updates to download and when to apply them, just like with a perpetual license.


[Dave LaRonde] "Which is why I will never give up my CS4 Production Premium installation disks, even if I have to run the software on a legacy system. Antiquated software is better than no software at all, and that's the danger both Adobe and Autodesk face, I think."

Those CS4 disks are still dependent on a call-home license authorization at time of install. Even perpetual license holders are somewhat dependent on "the cloud" (someone else's server on the Internet).

I'm really not trying to push Creative Cloud on anyone, and I do like perpetual licensing as much as the next guy, but there are some popular misconceptions about what Creative Cloud is and what it isn't that I think we can clear up here.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:39:17 pm

[Walter Soyka] "your files stay on your own computer unless you explicitly upload them yourself to cloud storage."

...which is the entire point of this discussion as I understand it.

Adobe's charging people for cloud storage, correct? A one-man shop paying for that feature would have to think long and hard about foregoing cloud storage, then paying for additional on-site storage. The benefit of cloud storage is that it's a more cost-effective and robust way to store data.

But my guy says there's no way it can remain secure.

Sure, there's the easy fix: charge the client for secure on-site storage. To make it as robust as cloud storage, you'd better store the data on Raid-5's and in at least two separate locations... and that's a big price tag.

Tradeoffs, tradeoffs, tradeoffs... I think Adobe opened up a big, messy can of worms and wasn't prepared to address all the implications.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:46:53 pm

[Walter Soyka] "your files stay on your own computer unless you explicitly upload them yourself to cloud storage."

[Dave LaRonde] "...which is the entire point of this discussion as I understand it. "

The discussion usually doesn't actually make it to the (optional) cloud storage -- most of the conversation seems to be about the Creative Cloud licensing model, where you don't have to pay anything upfront and can sort of rent Creative Suite Master Collection for $50/mo. As long as you pay, you can continue to use the apps, and you get all the updates as soon as they are available at no additional cost. Stop the subscription, and your apps turn off at the end of the month -- just like your cell phone.

This contrasts with the traditional perpetual licensing model, where you buy a license for bigger money upfront, but it's yours to use indefinitely and you must pay extra for periodic upgrades.

Pros and cons to each, from my perspective.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:01:10 pm

[Walter Soyka] "This contrasts with the traditional perpetual licensing model, where you buy a license for bigger money upfront, but it's yours to use indefinitely and you must pay extra for periodic upgrades.

Pros and cons to each, from my perspective."


Yup. But it only takes one highly talented individual bearing some grudge against Adobe to render the newer model useless. The new model's too tenuous for my liking.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:24:19 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Yup. But it only takes one highly talented individual bearing some grudge against Adobe to render the newer model useless. The new model's too tenuous for my liking."

Please see my other post on software updates.

Creative Cloud authorization has to happen once every 30 days, or else the applications deauthorize. Per Adobe [link], there is a 7 day grace period for the license check before this happens in the event that the authentication servers are unreachable for some reason (the servers failed, your Internet is down, etc.).

I think there are enough Cloud customers to ensure a timely response from Adobe in the event of a disaster.

Again, I'm not saying I think it's perfect or right for everyone, but as long as users are aware of the pros and cons, it's not necessarily fraught with peril, either.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 5:35:48 pm

Well, I'm thinking about something a bit more insidious and malicious that would not appear in periodic, well-intentioned checks.

I'm thinking about the possibility of inserting malicious code into the actual update files themselves, downloaded from the cloud. Now, there's a disaster... and undetectable until the damage was done.

I watched a lot of monster movies where something evil in a seemingly innocent delivery vector threatened to take over the world, you know....

Apparently, my across the street neighbor must have watched the same movies... and he was born in Romania and grew up in France!

Or perhaps his background in data security taught him something more people should heed...

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:02:26 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "I'm thinking about the possibility of inserting malicious code into the actual update files themselves, downloaded from the cloud. Now, there's a disaster... and undetectable until the damage was done."

Right... but how do you get your software updates now?

This is not an issue of cloud or not. We are still downloading updates for our perpetual licenses from "the cloud" (as we have for years now), so the hypothetical threat is the same.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:09:43 pm

If everything goes to Hell in a handbasket, at least I still have SOMETHING in my CS4 installation disks. Some kind of work, albeit limited, can continue.

Apparently from now on, I no longer will have that reassurance. I, for one, am not happy about it.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:23:53 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "If everything goes to Hell in a handbasket, at least I still have SOMETHING in my CS4 installation disks. Some kind of work, albeit limited, can continue."

They would still require authorization from an Adobe server (in "the cloud") for licensing when you install.


[Dave LaRonde] "Apparently from now on, I no longer will have that reassurance. I, for one, am not happy about it."

We don't know that yet, because pricing and availability for the next version of Creative Suite has not been announced.

This is all just conjecture now.

If the next release is cloud-only, I'll be joining you with the pitchforks and torches. Until then, I think we should all be conscious of the difference between giving feedback (which is very valuable) and spreading FUD (which isn't helpful to the community).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:29:33 pm

[Walter Soyka] "If the next release is cloud-only, I'll be joining you with the pitchforks and torches."

LOL,that I wanna see. :D

Personally, I thinks its wise for Adobe to get a taste for how we feel BEFORE they make final decisions and release that to the public. That has been my whole point in this exercise.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com





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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:48:24 pm

[Walter Soyka] "They would still require authorization from an Adobe server (in "the cloud") for licensing when you install."

Well, there's always cloning one's system drive. Then there is no problem. And I happen to have CS4 on a system drive. Furthermore, I would imagine that even the most devious and malicious of people would consider a piece of software that is soon to be three versions out of date to be of any importance. Now, I COULD be wrong about that, but what are the chances?



[Walter Soyka] "If the next release is cloud-only, I'll be joining you with the pitchforks and torches. Until then, I think we should all be conscious of the difference between giving feedback (which is very valuable) and spreading FUD (which isn't helpful to the community)."

I would agree with that in part, but there is also value in conjecture that Adobe employees may or may not have considered. If they have indeed done so, let them speak up. It's not like Adobe personnel avoid this particular forum.

One would think that they would do so, setting the minds of certain segments of the customer base at ease.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Richard CardonnaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:44:27 pm

Its not only about the posibility of maliciuos code its about giving someone access to you computer hence the posibility of seeing and retrieving info is posible. I am not saying that adobe will do that but again maybe they will, if not them the door adobe uses to get in your system is a door and there are plenty of talented hackers that are looking for a thrill not to mention for fame and fortune. my system is always ofline.

Richard


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Mike ChambersRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:04:26 pm

Reposting here since the original was posted in multiple places

Tom,

I am not sure where you are getting your pricing information, but you can always find the latest pricing on Creative Cloud at:

https://creative.adobe.com/plans

The standard price for a year of full creative cloud membership is $49.99 a month (not $59.95 as you listed). We don't have any plans to change that.

There are also promotional prices, single app membership, and plans for larger organization (all listed on that page).

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:15:55 pm

So here is the corrected version of the 1 year contract rate. $49.95



Adobe Cloud enthusiasts.Consider this.

Now- 29.95 monthly. Special offer.
Soon 49.95-signed year contract/ 74.95-monthly
Future- 89.95? 99.95?

Once you buy in you have no choice but continue to pay or be deactivated.

This is how it currently stands with the Cloud. No other options mentioned anywhere yet. Soon, hopefully.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 6:58:23 pm

Since I'm involved in marketing a lot, I see your point: any reasonable and thoughtful individual immediately would see what's missing, ask WHY it is missing, and make his or her own conclusions based on the available information.

At the moment, it appears at first glance that there is nothing to stop Adobe from raising software prices through the roof once everyone is on the cloud.

Anyone from Adobe care to comment?

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Richard CardonnaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:17:45 pm

The way they are working now is that you are not able to upgrade if you are more than 1 version behind. meaning that if you are in cs4 you cannot upgrade to cs6 much less too cs 7. you would need to iether payfull price for a perpetual lic. (if available) or go to the cloud. If they had warned via email all registerd owners and these disregarded then no problem but if adobe didnt do this then i see it wrong.

Richard


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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:25:05 pm

[Richard Cardonna] "...if you are in cs4 you cannot upgrade to cs6 much less too cs 7...."

...or CS5, for that matter. CS4 was a 32-bit application. CS5 and later are 64-bit applications. A lot of difference in functionality after CS4....

But there are certain people in this thread who envision more sinister implications in a migration to the cloud, and not all fingers are pointed in Adobe's direction.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:23:09 pm

[Tom Daigon] "This is how it currently stands with the Cloud. No other options mentioned anywhere yet. Soon, hopefully."

[Dave LaRonde] "Since I'm involved in marketing a lot, I see your point: any reasonable and thoughtful individual immediately would see what's missing, ask WHY it is missing, and make his or her own conclusions based on the available information."

Adobe is still selling perpetual licenses of CS6. Nothing is missing as of now.

We don't know any more about the upgrade path for the next version than we knew about upgrades to CS6 this time last year, but everyone is acting like the sky is falling.

There is a lot of value in discussing the options and saying "Creative Cloud looks like a bad idea for me, and I will still want perpetual licensing." Adobe should hear that feedback (and I think they are -- see below).

I don't see any value in spreading misinformation about Creative Cloud until we know more.


[Dave LaRonde] "Anyone from Adobe care to comment?"

Mike Chambers did, in the other thread that I tried to consolidate this into.

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/938680#938732

[Mike Chambers] "I don't have a different response than what anyone else has given you when you have asked before, which is that we havent announced pricing and availability yet.

When we have more details on the release, we will post them in the normal ways (i.e. press, social, website, etc...).

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com"


Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:31:17 pm

Walter, you wanna sit back and wait and see. Fine.

Im going to be proactive to let them know whats on customers minds. And maybe in the process influence the decision.

Alright, this thread is getting old and boring. Good luck to us all in the future.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com





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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:49:51 pm

[Tom Daigon] "Walter, you wanna sit back and wait and see. Fine. Im going to be proactive to let them know whats on customers minds. And maybe in the process influence the decision."

Tom, I think you misunderstand me.

We should be telling Adobe what we want. That's a good thing. In this case, it's perpetual licensing and clear upgrade paths.

We should be talking about the pros and cons of Creative Cloud. Anyone buying in should know what they're getting into. You're right to point out that people should know that if they stop paying subscription, they will no longer have access to their apps and thus will not be able to open old project files.

These are constructive dialogues to have.

I'm just saying we should not spread misconceptions or allow rumor to take the place of fact, and that we will know for sure what we're speculating about pretty soon.

It's really just a matter of framing.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:55:09 pm

Tom -

Since when are you "the customers" appointed representative? You pestered a few Adobe people on the floor at NAB, came back with no answers, and know you're our salvation? Come off it, please...we can all think for ourselves, and I can certainly come up with more accurate information than you seem be ranting and raving about. The economics will sort themselves out. Wait until you have something to complain about to complain about it. All you doing is bringing the trolls out...(Dave of course, excepted).

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 8:29:24 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "All you doing is bringing the trolls out...(Dave of course, excepted)."

Go ahead and call me a troll if you wish, Joe. The skin is thick.

But Tom did raise a valid point, and I think it comes down to this: TRUST. Users have been able to trust Adobe in the past.

Will that still be true in the future? Is Apple and what it did to Final Cut Pro users now the model for big-time software developers? Who knows? Who has heard anything to allay anyone's unspoken fears?

I think you'd have to admit that although it may not be on the top of everyone's minds, it's certainly at the back of their minds.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 9:08:00 pm

You know you're preaching to choir here, Dave. I've been one of the first to say that every upgrade I buy, I make sure that I purchase the backup discs for the extra 20 bucks. I want that software on the shelf, just like you.

I'm just not going to lose any sleep yet over the rantings of certain people on this and other forums (you don't rant - you express your opinions in the most exacting terms), which are raising the noise level for no apparent reason. I don't trust any corporation to behave in my interests - if I were to trust any corporation, one of the first on the list would be Adobe.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:34:12 pm

All valid points, Walter. However, if cloud distribution of Adobe software becomes more or less universal, Tom points out that there is little to stop Adobe from imposing a very steep price increase once everyone is reliant on it.

Other than users walking away from Adobe, that is.

Thanks, but I'll stand by my "caveat emptor" point of view on this.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 8:07:53 pm

I'd like to add to my previous "caveat emptor" point, Walter.

I for one am not privy to Adobe statistics on software distribution via the cloud. But the following scenario is plausible:

Given sufficient penetration of cloud distribution, and given Adobe's already-standing policy of "pay up or we cut you off" for cloud distribution, it is possible -- not likely, not entirely far-fetched, but possible -- that there could come a point where Adobe executives say, "We've got 'em where we want 'em!", then boost the software price to Autocad levels, confident that Adobe could withstand the inevitable drop in users.

Adobe is, after all, a company out to maximize its profits, and not unlike an international drug company or an oil company in that respect.

The wild card in this scenario would be the presence of a software developer, poised to use Adobe standards but with all-new code and a slightly different way of accomplishing the same results, but still a Tiny Little Guy at the moment. I wonder how many people would jump.

I suppose it all depends on Adobe's fears. And ours.

Isn't that a sad commentary on the current state of seller and buyer? What's happened that such speculation would even be necessary?

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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randall martinRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 5:03:28 am

I am a current cloud captive at 30.00, soon to go up. So I like this forum as it has no connection with Adobe whose forums I also read. One huge problem for CS6, for me and many others, is that it will not work with my AVCHD files (Panasonic 160 and 130). So, even if the price dropped and the defect continues, I will drop CC in a minute, use CS5 and look for alternatives. Sony Vegas? I am an intermediate level user. Any suggestions?

Thanks.



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Paul StevensonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 9:58:12 am

The way I see it is this:

With a lower, monthly, price point they can attract people that would normally have just used pirated version or not at all, so they gain customers to make up any short fall they have for lowering the price. Point 1.

Big software developers, including Adobe, have said in the past that the reason for the high cost of software is down to piracy, less piracy = lower prices, higher piracy = higher prices, but higher prices also generate piracy because it becomes too expensive (point 1). It's a vicious cycle that big companies can't break out of.
Adobe has tried by offering the "cloud" model. It's safer for them because it HAS to call home regularly so it can't be cracked as easily. Point 2.

With traditional sales they get one big sale to a user and then it goes quite, possibly for several years because, as with point 1, it's bloody expensive. Most people I know in the business skip at least one version, but with the cloud they don't have to, they can pay a lower monthly price and keep up to date. As long as Adobe doesn't raise the price too much then they are happy and keep paying. Thus Adobe can say to it's investors, "look we have X number of cloud users that are paying for one year licenses" and they can, sort of, predict there income meaning a more stable business. Point 3.

The majority of the Adobe suite programs have to run locally, they couldn't truly live in "the cloud" because it would just die on it's arse with today's tech. So they have to be local and that means they are open to being cracked. So if Adobe increases the price too much we go back to point 1 and cascade all through there business model and they are back at square 1. Point 4.

So Adobe is doing what people have been asking for, reducing prices, the problem is people are scared about the price hikes that could come, but Adobe would be stupid to try to go to far. But by the same token, price rises happen, they have to, so we should get upset if they go up a bit (read a few £'s here Adobe!).

But people are now so used to paying through the roof for Adobe products (via the old model) and they haven't stopped to think about exactly what does it cost. How much profit is Adobe making on some of these products? Until recently some products just used to have a skin change and a few new bells and whistles, but they were essentially the same thing as the previous version. That doesn't cost a lot to do, certainly nothing like starting from scratch, but Adobe charges the same inflated price for every update.

Now people are stuck in the mindset that they are setting a trap by reducing the prices and getting people into a model where they can have there wallets raided or stop working. You could think like that, or think that they are finally listening to the customers they never had and are reducing there prices, gaining customers and making a more sustainable business in the process.

It's basically like what Stella Artois' used to advertise "reassuringly expensive", only people need to stop thinking like that. It's a different world to 2007.


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Richard CardonnaRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 3:24:52 pm

what you say makes no sense. piracy will continue. Most if not all who use warez dont have the money or will nog spend it. many just want to take a look. The cloud will attrack users from othe apps that want to test run before deciding. Adobe cloud will be an install of the whole enchilada easy prey for hackers.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 5:49:54 pm

Thanks for the perspective. The issue of software piracy had completely slipped my mind. Now I have to do some more thinking on this topic.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud enthusiasts - something to consider
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 6:03:41 pm

FYI Ive stated my concerns & preferences.Others are aware of possible choices. Im done.Time to wait & see.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid


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