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Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users

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Tom DaigonThoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 12:10:36 am

Wanna know what current C4D users say about AE & C4D? Check bottom of this page.

http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/tutorials/introducing-cineware-and-cinema-...

Tom Daigon
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Ryan HolmesRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 3:20:30 am

Stab in the dark here...but I'm getting a sense they like the new strategic alliance between Maxon and Adobe! ;-)

Seriously though, this really does put AE into a whole new category.

Ryan Holmes
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@CutColorPost


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Tom DaigonRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 3:26:08 am

You should read the article.

Given their experience with rendering and displaying, they have some reservations about how slow and frustrating using it to its full capacity will be on AE. Another case of AE folks not really aware how slow both displaying and rendering can be with true 3D software. And with their experience, I think they see users in for a let down when they try to use it like Element 3D which is very fast.

Tom Daigon
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Ryan HolmesRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 3:36:19 am

[Tom Daigon] "Given their experience with rendering and displaying, they have some reservations about how slow and frustrating using it to its full capacity will be on AE. "

You're probably right here. 3D can become very complex very quickly - lighting, texturing, camera, animating, etc. But my guess would be that Maxon will begin to customize more of it's software towards working inside/with AE. C4D has a pretty solid following from broadcast motion graphics designers for its speed and ease of use. I would expect over the course of the next year or so that they will greatly refine the workflow to speed up the "it works in AE" tagline.

But I fear the early days of using it may be a little rough. Especially if a user doesn't have a pretty stout hardware setup - GPU, RAM, CPU, etc. I mean this would probably be a nightmare on a laptop or similar...I think the only way it performs smoothly is on high-end desktop workstations. Unfortunately, I'm sure somebody will complain that it takes too long to render a scene on their MacBook Air. I'm guessing before summer is out we'll see posts like that here on the COW!

Ryan Holmes
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@CutColorPost


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Tom DaigonRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 3:43:52 am

Well said. I concur.

Im so torn because after doing tutorials for both C4D and Blender 2.66. Blender really puts it to shame.

It has a new, very professional and functional GUI,amazing use of GPU for accelerated display and rendering (it flys on my Z820), great modeling tools and all the features of the Studio version (and not costing $3500). I could go on and on. I dont have time to master 2 3D packages, but the link to AE makes C4D very tempting.

Tom Daigon
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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 6:38:50 pm

Yes, Tom - it's a tough call choosing a 3D package. I started off way back when with Truespace, developed by Caligari, bought by Microsoft, then EOL'd. I believe it is now free if you can find it out there. There is limited support, but I jumped ship to 3DS Max when Volumetric Lighting became a real shortcoming of Truespace.

I've used 3DS Max - currently on Max 2011 - since the mid 90's, and you're right. It is not feasible to master more than one 3D package. I played around with Blender, the other freebie, and, while it has some amazing capabilities, I'm always looking at it as if it's Max, and that slows me down greatly. I'd rather be really good with one 3D package, than have a smattering of talents in a bunch of them.

That said, Blender supposedly has some really nice liquid sim capabilities, and I'm always drawn to that, but not enough to jump in...anyone who is thinking about starting out in 3D must realize that it's usually a matter of months before the light even goes on, and they start to get what they're working with. It's really a CAD package for visual effects. You need to learn the Interface, Lighting, Camera Animation, Texture Mapping, at least the basics of Modeling, and a whole lot more just to get your imagery looking half decent. Then there's Ray Tracing, Particle Systems, Character Animation...the list just goes on and on. You really have to choose your battles carefully...

Joe Bourke
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Tom DaigonRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 7:38:42 pm

Im pretty much resolved to stay with Blender. Spending $3500 to get all the same stuff in C4D is not anything I want to do. I dont do enough 3D to warrant it. And I think folks are going to get a rund shock when they see the limitations of using 3D with AE in the same comp.

Tom Daigon
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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 1:43:11 pm

I hate to throw rain on the C4D integration parade, but 3D Studio Max 2013 announced very tight integration with both After Effects and Photoshop when they released Max 2013, over a year ago:

http://area.autodesk.com/3dsmax2012

Here's what they said with the release - in March of 2012:

Adobe After Effects Interoperability (SAP+)

Steve Forde, the Product Manager for Adobe After Effects was recently giving a presentation to our channel partners and he really brought home how important this new feature will be for AE users. There is nothing else like it in any other product. It gives you a bidirectional workflow allowing two different artists to work collaboratively (it's common for there to be a 2D and a 3D user working together on a project) with updates happening in either end and everyone remaining in sync. Of course, it benefits you if you're working alone too as it ensures simple syncronization of your data.

Media design and graphics artists whose creative toolsets include Adobe® After Effects® software can now enjoy a level of interoperability with 3ds Max that sets a higher standard for 2D/3D data exchange. The new Media Sync functionality provides two-way transfer of cameras, lights, null objects, plane objects/solids, footage (including footage layering), blend modes, opacity, and effects; with it, artists can iterate more effectively and reduce rework to complete projects in less time.


Joe Bourke
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Tom DaigonRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 1:48:20 pm

Theres a certain irony there. Big difference is they didnt include a free version of 3DSMax with AE. That would have been nice.

Tom Daigon
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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 2:04:04 pm

Not exactly free version; free lite version. But I get what you're saying. Of course any 3D package has such a learning curve on it that you're not going to see, for the most part, people jumping in and becoming 3D jockeys if they weren't already.

Joe Bourke
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Todd KoprivaRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 5:07:11 pm

> Not exactly free version; free lite version.


I hate that name. It's not actually all that "light". It's comparable to Cinema 4D Prime. Lite has some features that Prime doesn't, and vice versa.

The main difference is that Cinema 4D Lite is made to work with After Effects, and it doesn't have the full output capabilities except through After Effects.

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Tudor "Ted" JelescuRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 12:19:11 pm

I see this as a step forward and beneficial for all AE users, weather they use C4D or not. It gives all other developers of 3D plugins for AE a reason to step it up and it opens a world of possibilities. I can see Element 3D adding more tools or Newton physics being integrated with the speed of Mettle plugins in a whole new 3d render engine that allows for interaction with AE 3d layers... Sky is the limit here. I say this pushes the limits again to our benefit and I'm pretty excited even though I did not previously use C4D.

Tudor "Ted" Jelescu
Senior VFX Artist


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 3:43:36 pm

Ted, don't get me wrong - I've earned my living in 3D and motion graphics for a long, time, and, while I own 3DS Max, I also own Element 3D, MIR, and several other plugins which incorporate 3D in some way shape or manner, even it it's using .obj files to create particle arrays. I actually just finished a big project using Element 3D, which in the recent past, I would have had to use Max for.

I see it as a positive thing, but, being a realist, also see the downside of trying to do an AE project in 3D without having the slightest knowledge of what you're in for. I applaud the people who will jump in and take this capability to the next level, but I also know there will be a huge groundswell in all the support forums of new users screaming "help! can't import my model", or "why don't the texture maps show up?", when all it takes is a half hour with the support docs. As always, there are those who can hit the ground running with little support, and those whose hands need to be held. I guess that's just the way it is...I'm all for these new capabilities.

Joe Bourke
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Tom DaigonRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 7:53:42 pm

Im going to visit the HP booth were hopefully they will have CS Next running on a comparable Z820 to mine. I want to see how the display and render performance of C4D inside AE is.

Tom Daigon
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Tom DaigonRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:01:31 pm

I decided since I had some time this week, I got the demo disk from Maxon and am taking the free C4D tutorials offered by digital tutors.
I do enjoy learning new stuff if I can see a use for it. I just have to flush out my brain cache of Blender stuff for the moment to make some room :D

How I pursue it in the future will be determined most likely from my visit to the HP booth to really see how C4D performs inside AE.

Tom Daigon
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Walter SoykaRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 9, 2013 at 1:28:15 am

I dig the new Ae/C4D integration. I'll still make heavy use of the traditional pre-rendering workflow (I have a little render garden set up for C4D network renders), but the new integration is going to be a really nice option on a good number of projects, too.

As for C4D vs. Blender... I love Blender, and I've contributed to the Blender foundation. If you're working entirely on your own, Blender is a fine choice. You can't beat the price, and there are a few things it does nicely that C4D can't do at all (fluids!) or does somewhat poorly (Pyrocluster!).

On the other hand, C4D is a fantastic application, too, and it has some unique advantages. The Mograph module is that rare combination of easy-to-use and immensely powerful, the interface is probably the most Adobe-like of any 3D app I can think of, the Ae interchange (aside from the new Cineware renderer) is mature and proven, and there's an enormous community around C4D motion graphics.

I'd heartily encourage anyone serious about freelance motion graphics to learn C4D. Your chances of getting a .blend file as an asset from an agency, or of your agency client accepting a .blend file as a deliverable approach zero. I'm certainly not saying that Blender's not capable of the work -- I'm just saying that there's next to no one willing to pay for you to do it with Blender. With C4D Lite now bundled with Ae, there will be more and more artists venturing into 3D with C4D, and an app like Blender will be minimized among this client base even more.

Again, if you're self-contained or if your clients are buying a final product only, it doesn't matter what you use. If you're a freelancer and your clients do care about specific software capabilities and workflows, C4D has tremendous momentum and is worth a look.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Tom DaigonRe: Thoughts on the AE/C4D implimentation by C4D users
by on Apr 9, 2013 at 1:29:06 pm

After seeing AE/C4D performing at NAB, I decided to follow your advice.

I got a free demo of Studio and am going thru great free tutorials from Digital Tutors. The time learning Blender was a good refresher for me since I haven't done 3D for a while. They both share certain basic tenets so that is helpful.

I still see a use for Element 3D (2.0 has shadows)in projects where ray tracing attributes are not necessary.

Tom Daigon
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