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Optical Flares Compression Problems

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Roderick VellaOptical Flares Compression Problems
by on Jan 29, 2013 at 8:53:48 pm

I am using Optical Flares plugin in 32 Bit project. The footage looks very good when exported in "uncompressed .avi" or ".mov animation" but when exported as mpeg2 or f4v or uploaded to YouTube banding occurs as seen in this image:



This image shows when using "uncompressed .avi"



As one can see the difference is evident.

I've already tried adding noise but it's all in vain.

I've uploaded the video to YouTube in uncompressed format (no banding), then YouTube compressed it and banding occurred.

The problem is that I also want it for DVD and when compressed to DVD banding occurs. I've searched the web for a solution but no luck. This is very disappointing since I've spend 2 days editing using optical flares thinking that everything looks awesome but then the final result was disastrous.

In short...

That banding only occurs when compressing to DVD or uploading it to YouTube. As I said, looks fine when exported as uncompressed or ram preview in After Effects.

How can I solve this problem? Are there any other methods to achieve that optical flare look and have great quality?

Thanks


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Dave LaRondeRe: Optical Flares Compression Problems
by on Jan 29, 2013 at 9:30:30 pm

Work and render in a 32-bit AE project, and it should look better than an 8-bit project.

Understand that when you go to DVD, you'll end up with 8-bit, comparatively lousy color and lousy color resolution. By working in 32-bit it will look as good as it can, but you still may be disappointed. There's no way around it, and nothing you can do about it: it's built right into the technical specification of MPEG 2.

Your one option: don't make the flare so subtle.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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chris brettRe: Optical Flares Compression Problems
by on Jan 29, 2013 at 9:42:16 pm

Hi ----
--- there are always restrictions to what you can display on any system however most of these do not matter because the result looks more than good enough to the human eye.

Therefore if one uses compressed formats, low bpc or formats that have poor resolution for the display size then banding can result in areas which require more 'pixel information 'such as the one you describe.

In my experience this is often impossible to completely eliminate and I am quick to adjust the edit in some way to improve the look if at all possible.

Sometimes I just reduce it as much as possible and send it to the client and in case its any consolation I've never have a job refused because of this - non video people are not as sensitive to it as us guys I think...

--- However things you can try are :

1 ) better compression codecs ( not my area so best not to advise here )
2 ) use grain / anti banding tools - I know you have tried this but sometimes small adjustments to the spark setting can make quite a difference -- its worth tweaking the settings a bit before you give up
3 ) use more colour / contrast in the area affected - this gives the spark greater range to play with when it calcultes the changes from A to B and this can reduce the noticeability of any banding.


My guess is that for Youtube and looking at your uploads ( which do not show any banding BTW ) a combination of 1 and 2 is best - codecs can make a BIG difference...


------------ all the best ------chris --


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Chris WrightRe: Optical Flares Compression Problems
by on Jan 29, 2013 at 10:52:52 pm

i would simply import a rendered low chroma output back in(make sure it's a 4:0:0 or 4:2:0 but at highest quality.)

and then use denoise or neatvideo to fix the final product. It's alot easier than guessing what's going to work before you render, believe me, because the last thing you want to do is compromise your vision by removing effects.

AE usually dithers 32bpc to 8bit but it is notorious for not supporting chroma downsampling. It's been 20 years, come on, adobe!


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Walter SoykaRe: Optical Flares Compression Problems
by on Jan 31, 2013 at 5:55:23 pm

[Chris Wright] "i would simply import a rendered low chroma output back in(make sure it's a 4:0:0 or 4:2:0 but at highest quality.)... AE usually dithers 32bpc to 8bit but it is notorious for not supporting chroma downsampling."

Chris, having seen some of the devilishly genius AEPs you've published, I'm a little surprised you haven't whipped one up one for chroma subsampling with Channel Combiner, Set Channels and Mosaic. It'd be 8b, but still...

There's also Christian Lett's qp_ChromaSubsample effect [link], but since it's based on PixelBender, it's not compatible with CS6.


[Chris Wright] "It's been 20 years, come on, adobe!"

Tell them here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Walter SoykaRe: Optical Flares Compression Problems
by on Jan 31, 2013 at 5:44:11 pm

On the topic of debanding, I'm a big fan of GenArts Sapphire S_Deband.

If you're on a Mac, you could look into PHYX Cleaner Deband (via FxFactory).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris WrightRe: Optical Flares Compression Problems
by on Feb 2, 2013 at 3:49:37 am

this also might help

if you add an adjustment layer - mode color
add effect median around 5
it will blur the chroma and not the luma. might help the compression. also, make sure you don't use any 8 bit effects, little yellow triangles will disable 32bpc processing.


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