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Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast

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Scott AndersonExporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 18, 2013 at 6:17:41 pm

Hi, I looked through the forums on this and didn't see or missed anything on the variations of compression. I'm exporting an HD 1920x1080 59.94 fps 30 second tv spot for broadcast. I initially did an 8bit uncompressed master and then ran it through Compressor's h.264 setting. The file size was really low - 30mg at 8 mbits per second. A previous spot that I did the other day came in at 300mg and 88 mbits per second. This one had every bell and whistle graphic while the smaller one was very basic with very little image change. My first question is - is the size big enough - visually on screen in quicktime it appears ok. Second question is why would the size be so different. Last question is - am I exporting this properly? Thanks in advance for your time. Scott

Scott Anderson


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Kevin CampRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 18, 2013 at 6:49:59 pm

with variable bit rate file size with h.264 can vary quite a bit based on how much information is within a frame and how much changes happens from frame to frame...

30 seconds of black will compress down considerably more than 30 seconds of fast action video...

so it's possible, and if the settings were the same for both compressions, then i think you're ok.

also, are you really delivering 1080 at 59.94 fps, or is it 59.94 interlaced?

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Scott AndersonRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 18, 2013 at 7:08:32 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I have the AE composition set for 59.94 fps per station/ftp instructions for hd. When I exported h.264 out of After Effects I wasn't able to confirm the data rate for the file in QT or Cinema Tools but it did tell me it was 59.94 fps. H.264 out of compressor allowed me to see the data rate in QT after it was finished. I originally was sending Apple 422 with the older SD formats but we've converted the spots to hd, so using the h.264 format for broadcast purposes is new for me. The specs provided from the various stations were all over the place. Some only said "hd in h264 format" others added the 59fps. If I have a production contact I drop a call in to confirm. Most have eliminated the need for slate stuff. The file size on this one made me a little nervous. With the higher frame rate, I was sure it would be a large file. I'll upload the files and verify with the stations that they're ok. Thanks again.

Scott Anderson


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Dave LaRondeRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 18, 2013 at 8:13:26 pm

Kevin works at a TV station, and I used to. That's why we're questioning the 59.94 FRAMES per second.

We both know that TV stations don't broadcast that way: at 1080, they broadcast 59.94 FIELDS per second, and the field order is upper field first. You might want to look into that, because that 59.94 frames thing seems a little screwy.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Scott AndersonRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 18, 2013 at 8:44:39 pm

Thanks. When I noticed the 59.94 fps on a few specs I thought it was for the frame rate for the comp settings. Should I be leaving the comp settings at 29.97 frame rate for 1920x1080 HD? Also, should I be in 8bit or 16 bit? I found the upper field setting to change but I didn't see anything regarding field rate. Where would I find it to change?

Here's what I get from the various stations/cable companies -
Interlaced Upper Field First, 29.97 fps, .mpg (mpeg2) 720p 59.94fps 4.2.0, mpg2 format or quicktime, All HD commercials and PSAs must be produced in MPEG2 HD 1080i with a 59.94fps field rate. They must be converted by your production company and uploaded to our FTP site as .mov files using the H.264 codec.

Thanks for the help. My TV days were pre-digital (3qtr, 1inch stuff) and my pre-ftp spots were uncompressed files sent out for beta tapes.

Scott Anderson


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Dave LaRondeRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 18, 2013 at 9:26:50 pm

It's tough to give meaningful advice because those delivery specs are all over the place. Sadly, there are few consistent delivery specs among stations in a single TV market.

So what are the specs for the station (or stations) to which you will deliver this spot?

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Scott AndersonRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 18, 2013 at 11:09:13 pm

The best one I have is below - otherwise most say just use quicktime or mov file.
The 59.94 fps detail showed up in another market I do work with . Most of the stations there had it in their specs. The one I've pasted below was generally what I pasted in or less. Can you tell a good way to verify the data rate after exporting out of AE? I set it for vbr with a low of 35 mbit and a high of 50 mbit but can't check the final output. When I do h.264 straight out I can't check the file in Cinema Tools and QT won't show it at all. Thanks again.

High Definition:
1080i Quick Time MOV:
 1920x1080 resolution
 H.264 compression
 Interlaced Upper Field First, 29.97 fps
 Uncompressed audio, 48 KHz
 16:9 aspect ratio (1.0 pixel aspect ratio)

720p Quick Time MOV:
 1280x720 resolution
 H.264 compression
 Progressive, 29.97 fps
 Uncompressed audio, 48 KHz
 16:9 aspect ratio (1.0 pixel aspect ratio)

Scott Anderson


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Brian TarioRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 22, 2013 at 12:23:36 am

I recommend the free Mac app VideoSpec for analyzing the properties of a video file. You'll get much more info than via QT, VLC, etc.



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Scott AndersonRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 22, 2013 at 3:04:13 pm

Cool. Thanks again. I'm normally a browser here but when I've needed help someone always comes through.

Scott Anderson


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Scott AndersonRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 22, 2013 at 3:21:04 pm

VideoSpec download worked well.

Scott Anderson


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Vishesh AroraRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 19, 2013 at 7:22:44 am

Dave

Kevin works at a TV station, and I used to. That's why we're questioning the 59.94 FRAMES per second.

We both know that TV stations don't broadcast that way: at 1080, they broadcast 59.94 FIELDS per second, and the field order is upper field first.


Yesterday, I created a file to broadcast with specs(given by Client):

HD 1080p
25fps
.h264
.Mov
Bit rate: 20-30 Mbps


How will I get to know whether the client is asking for 25 Frames per sec or 25 Fields per second by looking at these specs?

Also for QuickTime, there is no default preset for 1080p(but there is for 720p). So is it right to assume that its unusual?



Don't know much on how Broadcasting works. A little explanation will help.

Vishesh Arora
3D and Motion Graphics Artist
Films Rajendra

Blog:
http://digieffects.wordpress.com

2011 3D Demo Reel:








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Dave LaRondeRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 21, 2013 at 2:47:00 pm

As I look at those specs, I see that you should make a 25 FRAMES per second file.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Scott AndersonRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 21, 2013 at 3:12:30 pm

Thanks Dave. I ended up using 29.97/422 as I had in previous uploads. I'm going to reach out to the production folks on the other end for future specs and clarifications. Some of the info is coming from non-production people so it may be getting a little lost in translation.

Scott Anderson


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Dave LaRondeRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 22, 2013 at 4:59:24 pm

[Scott Anderson] "Some of the info is coming from non-production people so it may be getting a little lost in translation."

Oh, feel free to take that particular suspicion directly to the bank! This would be especially true if it comes from the sales department.

It seems to be the nature of a sales person to be detail-oriented if and ONLY if errors in detail will adversely affect their commissions. Otherwise, attention to detail mysteriously takes a back seat.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Juan ManuelRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 21, 2013 at 5:27:00 pm

Vishesh: roughly speaking, fields are half a frame, containing only either even or odd lines. So for PAL, it means you have, if interlaced, 25 frames per second, which means 50 fields per second - two fields make a complete frame. That, in an interlaced setting. Progressive video doesn't subdivide frames into fields.
They are asking you progressive material, so that would be, in your case, 25 frames per second, no fields, with a resolution of 1920x1080


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Vishesh AroraRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Jan 22, 2013 at 8:22:55 am

Thanks Dave and Juan.

Vishesh Arora
3D and Motion Graphics Artist
Films Rajendra

Blog:
http://digieffects.wordpress.com

2011 3D Demo Reel:








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Niculae FlorinRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:40:14 am

Hi all i have a question. How can i export a AE Project at this specifications. Thank you very very much.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:03:24 pm

I only see "HD" and "H.264". I see nothing about frame rate, media container nor horizontal & vertical resolution.

At the moment, you don't have much of a specification.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Niculae FlorinRe: Exporting H.264 from After Effects file for HD Broadcast
by on Apr 11, 2014 at 12:18:16 pm

i rezove it. i took MPEG StreeamClip and this guy resove everithing. T^hank you all


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