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How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit

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Peter Rixner
How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 11, 2013 at 9:20:53 pm

Hi ...

so far I saw that I can access the RED Raw files in the "interpret" dialog. But it seems that once You close that interpretation it's fixed back in a 8Bit workflow. I expected, that if I raise the ISO (just for test purposes) to blow out highlights, and use a 32Bit setup I could get values beyond 1 /(or beyond 255 how ever You call it) and so have full access to all dynamic range the files can give me.
But that seems not to be the case.

So how could that be done ? Or can it be done at all ?

Thanks!

__Peter__


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 11, 2013 at 9:35:03 pm

Shouldn't RED Raw files be transcoded for other applications like AE?

Sorry, I don't have the luxury of using RED footage, so my knowledge is hearsay.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Peter Rixner
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 11, 2013 at 9:57:11 pm

You can use r3d files directly in AE and find a really nice "pre grading" or lets call it "metadata-editing" in footage interpretation. There You can push the image around as far as you can with a raw image. But I would like to have the same access outside that interpretation window.

Simply just in AE 32Bit like with an Open EXR-Sequence for example.

You can probably get high dynamic range OpenEXR-Sequences by exporting them from Redcine-X but I expected a easier workflow as Adobe promotes the Red workflow so heavily and Open EXR Sequences are so much bigger in filesize.

So any more ideas anyone ? :)

Thanks!

__Peter__


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Darby Edelen
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 12, 2013 at 12:53:32 am

Haven't worked with RED files in AE in a while and it sounds like things may have changed a bit since the last time I did.

It's quite possible that the data isn't being quantized into 8bpc but rather clipped in the 0-1 range. In that case if you have AE set to 32bpc you could try lowering the exposure in the interpret dialog until you have no clipping, then raise the exposure an equal amount in AE with the Color Correction > Exposure effect.

I can't test this (we don't have our RED Epic yet) so I'm just throwing ideas out here but it might be worth a shot.

Darby Edelen


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Peter Rixner
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 12, 2013 at 2:37:00 pm

You probably mean "mapped" instead of "clipped", right ? I tried that but it seems to be the same. You cannot access the fully dynamic range. But I still consider, that I don't understand all of the suggested workflow from adobe.

I would be interrested in Your opinions of in another way I figured out while playing with the Red-dialog.

If You set the colorspace to something like redlog you get the expected super flat image. If I take this into a 32bit composition and grade it until it looks right ... is that maybe the right workflow ? That way I guess I have the full range of what the camera can see. But I am not sure if I create "gaps" and "banding" when changing the image heavily. So far I cannot see bad things happen by eye.

Thanks for andy further ideas ...

__Peter__


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Darby Edelen
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 12, 2013 at 11:59:56 pm

I meant clipped. If your full range of data is being mapped into 0-1 then you have your high dynamic range, it's just compressed and fugly and needs to be expanded out.

At that point Effects > Utility > Color Profile Convert or Effects > Utility > Apply Color LUT would probably get the job done provided you have the proper color profile or LUT.

Darby Edelen


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Peter Rixner
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 13, 2013 at 11:39:33 am

Ah, yes of course, you're right. The last thing I mentioned would be the equivalnt of "mapped". So using one of those "log" colorspaces give methat mapping. I still wonder if that's a legitimate way of getting the full range. But probably in 32bit it's correct.

What You meant is clipped of but the rest of the data still available when the exposure is changed with the ae exposure effect. But as far as I can see that information doesn't come through. But I am not 100% sure.

I really wonder that I cannot find a recommended workflow for that on the web.

__Peter__


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Angelo Lorenzo
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 13, 2013 at 10:31:06 pm

1. Set your project to 32bpc and turn color management off.
2. Add RED footage to comp
3. Add additional color correction filters. Make sure these are 32bpc

You will now see that After Effects allows super brights. Using the RED RAW adjustments directly seem to roll off the maximum value to 1.0, so don't rely on RAW adjustments to achieve super brights; Use any 32bpc adjustment to push and pull those values.

So far as I can tell, this doesn't introduce much if any banding.

You don't get any huge advantage when using the native RED RAW adjustments when After Effects is accessing the original file anyways. AE has access to the entire unadulterated range.

Additional reading on superbrights which may be useful http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/cineon-files-what-they-are-and-how-...

--------------------
Angelo Lorenzo

Need to encode ProRes on your Windows PC?
Introducing ProRes Helper, an awesome little app that makes it possible
Fallen Empire Digital Production Services - Los Angeles
RED transcoding, on-set DIT, and RED Epic rental services
Fallen Empire - The Blog
A blog dedicated to filmmaking, the RED workflow, and DIT tips and tricks


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Angelo Lorenzo
Re: How can I access the fully dynamic range of RED-Files in Aftereffects 32Bit
on Jan 13, 2013 at 11:05:57 pm

I should mention that this is a limitation of Redcine-X as well. You cannot push RED files past 1.0 to create super brights. HDRx files have the same issue as the A and X frames are just blended within the 0.0-1.0 range.

You could, however, interpret two versions of the HDR RED file (one as frame a and one as frame x), blend them in 32bit in After Effects and save the resulting over range footage as OpenEXR.

--------------------
Angelo Lorenzo

Need to encode ProRes on your Windows PC?
Introducing ProRes Helper, an awesome little app that makes it possible
Fallen Empire Digital Production Services - Los Angeles
RED transcoding, on-set DIT, and RED Epic rental services
Fallen Empire - The Blog
A blog dedicated to filmmaking, the RED workflow, and DIT tips and tricks


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