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nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?

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Dave Flemingnightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 3:06:07 pm

I have a clip of a man delivering a line on camera in my PPro timeline that needed additional compositing in After Effects. I cut in his audio in PPro and then copy/pasted the video into my AE comp. I've gotten burned before on dynamic linking, so I prefer to copy/paste, and have done it successfully several times. I do the compositing, render the movie and return to Premiere and import.

This is when the fun really begins...My audio that I had previously cut in of the man talking is gone. Look further, and the audio on the clip is completely messed up (out of sync, totally chopped up, i.e. UNUSABLE). I delete the clip from my project and start over with media browser, re-importing the clip--still messed up the same way.

How does this possibly happen and what can I do to rescue the audio on my master clip?

Dave


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Dave LaRondeRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 4:54:22 pm

If you don't want to use Dynamic Link, try exporting the edited clip from Premiere. Then you know things are going to be right.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave FlemingRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 5:19:41 pm

Dave--While I agree with you, holy crap...talk about going back to the old days...exporting-importing-exporting-importing. But, in this case, I suppose you are right.

I still just can't understand how a copy/paste could have caused all this madness...

df


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Dave LaRondeRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 6:07:35 pm

It might be old-school, but without additional information about the nature of the footage in question or precisely what you're doing to it in AE, it's difficult to offer alternatives.

Detailed Information = accurate response.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave FlemingRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 8:01:37 pm

Fair enough, but I had been intentionally vague to begin with because this is some murky water. Here goes:

The clip in question is XDCAM EX HD. It was transferred to my RAID drive without issue. In the clip, I had the on camera talent read the one line he was delivering several times until I was happy with it. When I found the best take, I edited the audio only into an existing PPro timeline. The talent was replacing a line from a different actor. The video in this section was a 3-box composite of on screen graphics and different actors. This is why I copy/pasted the video only from PPro to AE. I had an existing comp and simply needed to replace footage with the new actor and render.

When I copy/pasted, the clip appeared in my AE timeline. But, it was out of view of my :30 comp. So, I stretched out the zoom, found the clip (the "active" part of the AE layer), and drug it back into position in the :30 comp. My theory is that this act of dragging back the video in my AE comp is what messed up my audio. Although, I didn't even have the audio information in AE--just the video! I then applied effects to the video, a mask, and exported the movie. It was then that I noticed the audio was completely botched. It was out of sync, completely chopped up, parts missing, as I said, unusable. The maddening thing is that this wonderful change had somehow rippled all the way back to my original clip on the RAID drive. And yes, that was my only copy of the clip. In a perfect world, I would have backed it up elsewhere, but that didn't happen this time.

So, that's about as much detail as I can provide. As I said before, I've copy/pasted countless times from PPro to AE, always without incident. This is a first. That's the detailed information, now I hope I get an accurate response.


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Dave LaRondeRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 8:27:52 pm

Yup, it's the footage, I bet. XDCAM is a long-gop codec, and you're mixing clips for the dialogue replacement. You also circumvented Dynamic Link. Strike One.

Adobe SAYS long-gop footage shouldn't be a problem in versions CS5 or later, but you have at least two clips where AE has to reconstruct a complete frame from partial-frame information for your final render, one of which probably no longer has the video associated with it. You may have more of this footage. Strike Two.

You don't mention the version of AE you're using; pre-CS5 versions won't react well to XDCAM footage. Not at all. Consider yourself lucky that your copy-paste trick worked at all. If it's post-CS5, long-gop footage using any effects that involve time, Rotobursh, or Warp Stabilizer will also react poorly. So I guess that's a Strike Three.

And we don't really know anything about your machine, your OS, any third-party cards, updated drivers, yadda, yadda, yadda...

You add them all up, and exporting still appears to be the most straightforward way to work.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave FlemingRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 8:52:26 pm

Thanks for the reply...first off, I am on CS6 with Matrox hardware and a robust PC. Should have mentioned that earlier. So, that's not the issue.

Despite your baseball analogy, I beg to differ. First, I have had FAR better results from my "copy-paste trick" than I EVER had with dynamic link. You yourself have criticized DL before, now you're defending it? Plus, if you're saying my problem is long-gop media, how is dynamic link going to solve that? It's still long-gop media, and I still have to manipulate it in an AE comp.

I don't understand what you mean by "mixing clips." This is just straight-ahead footage replacement. In fact, the XDCAM EX footage it replaced was copy/pasted from PPro to AE as well. So, it was totally apples to apples--I just got a different (and disastrous) result this time.


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Dave LaRondeRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 9:43:02 pm

Well, I'm not actually DEFENDING Dynamic Link, I just think it probably works better than copying from Premiere and pasting into AE.

And if you know I'm not a big fan of Dynamic Link, you probably also know I'm not a big fan of long-gop media in AE; I don't think it works as well as promised once you get beyond the basics. You situation isn't quite basic.

But if you want to, keep using copy-paste. I'm just advocating the tried-and-true route, that's all. Yeah, it's a pain, but it works.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Todd KoprivaRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 11:26:53 pm

If you're experiencing garbled audio, my first thought is that the media cache files are to blame. Try deleting the media cache files, and see if the problem persists.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Dave FlemingRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 13, 2012 at 2:03:24 pm

Argghhh--thanks Todd, that was it. I hacked out the .CFA and .PEK files and everything is fine now. Good call!

df


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Todd KoprivaRe: nightmare audio problem - is AE to blame?
by on Nov 13, 2012 at 6:14:03 pm

Would you mind submitting a bug report with as much detail as possible so that we can determine the root cause of this?

http://adobe.ly/ReportBug

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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