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Mocha Combine Multiple trackers

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Ari Grunzeweig
Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 3, 2012 at 4:36:03 am

Hi. 2 questions here.

I've just used Mocha for the first time and I'm thrilled with it!

1. Can I combine the data from multiple trackers to export to one After Effects object?
My shot starts out with an overhead view of a table then the camera pans up to look through a window. There are no tracking objects at the start of the clip that remain at the end, so I tracked multiple items in the shot with different in points and out points.

2. I pasted a bit of tracking data from the first few seconds of the clip as a test into AE. The results were accurate, but because I was pasting corner pin data, the positioning of the 'items to attach to the trackers' was thrown out of whack. Any idea how I can just paste the tracking data and having the movements affect with layers without having their initial parameters change? I know this is hard to understand., so I've attached 2 screenshots. 1st is my ideal placement of my objects (the letters). 2nd is what happens when I paste the tracking data.

These are all individual layers I'm pasting into.. I also tried pasting on a null and parenting the layers but that gave no results. I suppose I would have to link each corner pin to the null individually, but still I don't know if that will work. Any ideas??

Thanks!!!





Thanks,
Ari


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 3, 2012 at 4:35:04 pm

Hi Ari, see if my posts here is of assistance to you

Further, for each of your letter, you should place them in a comp which is the same size as your 'final' comp. Then nest these letters into your 'final' comp.

You shouldn't have to worry about mocha's advanced Align Surface feature for this.

Cheers
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Singapore and Malaysia
Adobe ACE/ACI (version 7) & Imagineer Systems Inc Approved Mocha Trainer


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Ari Grunzeweig
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 3, 2012 at 5:00:24 pm

Thanks RoRK. Can't wait to try it all later tonight!

Thanks,
Ari


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Ari Grunzeweig
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 3, 2012 at 8:36:46 pm

Which type of tracking data do you suggest I export and copy to my layers?

Thanks,
Ari


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 3, 2012 at 8:52:08 pm

From the description of the camera move, perspectives are in order. Hence, one of the corner pin export options is required.

Try solving one tracking problem to ensure that the workflow works well before committing to the other tracks/inserts.

Further, you may be able to track once and export multiple corner pin tracking data by moving the Surface area to a co-planar area within the tracking spline. You could also export one corner pin data into AE, then apply Distort>Transform and use the effect's position or anchor point to offset the result for other solves/text characters. IMPORTANT: If you use the Transform effect as just described, you must ensure that it is placed before the Corner Pin effect.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Singapore and Malaysia
Adobe ACE/ACI (version 7) & Imagineer Systems Inc Approved Mocha Trainer


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Ari Grunzeweig
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 4, 2012 at 12:24:37 am

Thank you! Amazing!

I got the first tracker element to work, but now I need to get all my trackers to work.
The tricky thing is that all the parts I'm tracking in my footage need to combine into one set of data to paste on my null...

How do I achieve that? Basically export the tracking data from 5 trackers with different ins/outs?

Thanks,
Ari


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 4, 2012 at 3:17:15 am

[Ari Grunzeweig] "I got the first tracker element to work, but now I need to get all my trackers to work."

Then follow the same procedure for the other insert layers.

[Ari Grunzeweig] "The tricky thing is that all the parts I'm tracking in my footage need to combine into one set of data to paste on my null..."

Why do you need to combine the different inserts? In the thread I pointed you to, I stated that if you SHOULD NOT apply mocha's corner pin data to a Null Layer in AE. Null Layers are useful only for Transform Tracking Data from mocha.

In my previous post, I had pointed out that you can use a single mocha corner pin tracking data for all your insert layers then apply the Effect>Distort>Transform effect to the insert elements BUT ensure that the effect is applied before the Corner Pin data. Then use the position or anchor point properties of the Transform effect to offset the different insert layers into their desired location. This technique is possible for a tight shot like this which doesn't have much parallax difference at the areas for the insert elements.

You should have sufficient information to do what you need. If it's too much to digest then simply execute multiple tracks in mocha, one for each insert element that you need in AE.

When you have more time and more experience, you can get back to the techniques I have suggested in this post.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Singapore and Malaysia
Adobe ACE/ACI (version 7) & Imagineer Systems Inc Approved Mocha Trainer


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Ari Grunzeweig
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 4, 2012 at 12:51:15 pm

Thanks again RoRK. I think I didn't properly explain my goal. I'll give it an other try and hope for the best!

I only have 1 insert layer. (Effectively, all my letters are insert layers, but I am treating them as one)
What I have many of are x-splines in Mocha, because some go out of the shot as the camera pans up, so each x-spline is only visible during a given number of frames.

So the part I'm unsure about is... For example, when I am on the frames associated with my first x-spline, I can export that tracking data, but it is not exporting the data of the other x-spines that are in later frames... Does that make sense? Perhaps these screenshots can help illustrate.

Hope this is more clear, and thanks again for the help!







Thanks,
Ari


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 4, 2012 at 1:42:55 pm

From the earlier images that you posted, it looked like the text (insert elements) were to be placed on the table. If this is the case then do not track anything other than the table - ie you do not require tracking splines on the window etc.

It's totally useless to track the window and other areas since they do not share the same plane with your intended inserts. Sense make?

As far as tracking areas moving out of the shot and new areas coming into the shot, you should adjust the spline to fit the new areas that come into play. You can leave the parts of the spline that go off the screen. When you adjust the spline, you're also creating keyframes for the tracking splines. So, a single, keyframed tracking spline should do the trick.

TIP: you can include the edge of the table as part of your tracking area since mocha loves shapes as much as textures. Ensure that the edge of the spline covers an area a few pixels larger than the table - this helps to define the shape of the table for mocha.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Singapore and Malaysia
Adobe ACE/ACI (version 7) & Imagineer Systems Inc Approved Mocha Trainer


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Ari Grunzeweig
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 4, 2012 at 3:53:48 pm

I think I've got it!! (for now)

Thanks for all the help!


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 5, 2012 at 2:20:40 am

I think I've got it too! ;-)

It looks like other than inserting elements onto the table, you're also intending to insert elements onto the floor and the socket. Correct?

Just track each insert exercise separately in mocha - ie one layer in mocha for each of the tracks/insert elements.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Singapore and Malaysia
Adobe ACE/ACI (version 7) & Imagineer Systems Inc Approved Mocha Trainer


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Ari Grunzeweig
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 5, 2012 at 12:04:13 pm

Hi,

Not really.. I'll explain the whole scenario.
Before this shot we've been discussing, there is a profile shot of a girl blowing at a table of letters she'd been colouring. After it cuts to the shot we've been discussing of the letters on the table where they are whisked away out the window.

So even though the letters fly away on their own, I wanted their motion to match move to the camera move in the shot and in addition take on their own flight.

I achieved this, I'd say 85% well by parenting my letter comps (each the size of the original footage) to an invisible solid layer (also the size of the footage) and applying corner pin tracking data from Mocha.
There is some shifting that seems non perfect and I'm not sure why, which I don't see in Mocha, but I can live with it if need be. In Mocha, the track looks perfect.

So the reason I was tracking those other elements in my footage was because the letters fly up and still need to match the rest of the shot since they do not remain on the table.

So that's the full story... It would also be cool if in Mocha I could export tracking data and apply it to the camera in AE rather that objects.

Thanks again for all your help!


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 5, 2012 at 4:04:51 pm

Well, your idea is doable but it's a thoroughly backasswards way of doing what you need to do.

What you want is a 3D tracker. I suggest that you either upgrade to AE CS6 or mochaAE/Pro V3 or purchase The Foundry's Camera Tracker if you're on AE CS5 and do not want to upgrade to CS6.

Cheers
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Singapore and Malaysia
Adobe ACE/ACI (version 7) & Imagineer Systems Inc Approved Mocha Trainer


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Ari Grunzeweig
Re: Mocha Combine Multiple trackers
on Oct 5, 2012 at 7:33:51 pm

Thank you for the suggestions!


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