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CS6 GPU Question

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Spencer Tweed
CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 9, 2012 at 5:21:18 pm

Hey Guys,

So I was about to buy the NVidia Quadro 2000 due to the fact that it is supported and is cheap, but then I saw that the NVidia GeForce GTX 680 is only about $50 more expensive but seems to destroy the Quadro 2000 in almost any spec! I checked the Adobe website and it looks like they added support for the GTX 680 in the latest update of CS6, so... Why would anyone buy the Quadro 2000?

I'm a little skeptical and I think I might be missing something... Anyone know why I would want the Quadro 2000 over the GTX 680?

- Spencer


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Kevin Camp
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 9, 2012 at 6:44:51 pm

i can only speculate that the pro level card will be more stable under heavy usage.

i have heard of a user who had used a gtx285, had frequent issues and switched to the quadro 4000 and it was much more stable. performance is about the same between those two cards (about the same number of cores), but there is obviously something more in the quadro series to help it perform under heavy usage, and that's probably what increases the price.

i had met some nvidia engineers a few years ago just before premiere pro introduced the mercury playback engine, and they echoed that point, while the gaming cards worked fairly well, they found that when you really stressed the card with the mercury engine, the pro series held up well, while the gaming cards would start to have issues.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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chandra hope
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 9, 2012 at 10:02:05 pm

I actually just asked about this too. In my research and talking with people it seems the Quadro 4000 is the best bang for the buck, especially if you intend to use the new CS6 Ray trace features.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/premiere-pro-cs6.html

I would love anyones input on this. I noticed John Dickinson of Motionworks was also using this card when he was demoing the new ray-trace feature.

Thanks!


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Todd Kopriva
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 9, 2012 at 10:23:26 pm

We do hear the suggestion from the Nvidia folks that the Quadro cards are more durable under heavy usage, but we also have seen some benchmark tests (here on the COW) that make the GTX cards look like they deliver great performance for the price.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
product manager, professional video software
After Effects team blog
Premiere Pro team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Walter Soyka
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 10, 2012 at 1:44:02 pm

[Kevin Camp] "i have heard of a user who had used a gtx285, had frequent issues and switched to the quadro 4000 and it was much more stable."

That might have been me [link].

It's entirely possible that my GTX285 was just faulty, and those were dark times for NVIDIA drivers on OS X. I didn't do a lot of troubleshooting -- I just did a lot of cursing before replacing the card with the Quadro 4000. Which only led to more cursing when Apple released 10.6.7 which removed the NVIDIA Quadro drivers and wouldn't boot...

On the Windows side, and even with my GTX285/Quadro 4000 experience above, I would not personally buy a Quadro 2000 over a GTX680 today, unless you specifically need Quadro features for another application. The Ae performance metrics aren't even close. As the Quadro 6000 test I contributed to Juan Salvo's and Danny Princz's benchmark shows, the bang for the buck with the high-end cards vs the GTX series with Ae/Pr is dismal.

Remember, though, the graphics card only comes into play with Ae for the ray tracing renderer and select third-party effects. It will not accelerate classic 3D rendering or most of the built-in effects.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Kevin Camp
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 10, 2012 at 4:37:28 pm

it was you, walter :)

if i was buying a card for myself to accelerate the new raytracing feature, i would buy a gtx card. with the primary reason being price (or price per performance). if i encountered stability issues, i'd probably look into improving the cooling system on the card, which doesn't cost too much. and if i still had issues, i'd just sell it and upgrade at that point... you probably wouldn't lose much in that situation.

now if i was getting my company to purchase cards for our machines, i'd may go after the quadros. in part because i don't want to have to trouble shoot other co-workers machines, nor would i want to go back to my boss and say we made the wrong decision, and now we need to spend more money -- and it's a bit of an accounting nightmare to deal with selling things and then trying to keep that money in our department.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Michael Garske
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 11, 2012 at 3:44:26 am

I have been doing some exhaustive research on the 500 and 600 series GTX cards. Unfortunately it would seem that the GPU rendering isn't improved from the 500 series and is actually diminished greatly from the GTX 580.

Here's what I found:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU12/406
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/17

Also, AMD cards aren't supported by After Effects on Windows 7 correct? Some of their cards trounce Nvidia on bench marks and I'd like to look into getting one of those.

At this time I'm considering a GTX 580 3Gb but it would be nice to go with a newer card. Does anyone have experience with any of these cards?


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Todd Kopriva
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 11, 2012 at 5:24:54 pm

> Also, AMD cards aren't supported by After Effects on Windows 7 correct?


That's not correct.

There's only one feature in After Effects CS6 that requires a specific Nvidia card: the GPU-accelerated ray-traced 3D renderer. Every other GPU feature in After Effects CS6 works on AMD cards.

Details are here:
http://bit.ly/aftereffects_cs6_gpu

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
product manager, professional video software
After Effects team blog
Premiere Pro team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Walter Soyka
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 11, 2012 at 5:45:17 pm

[Todd Kopriva] "There's only one feature in After Effects CS6 that requires a specific Nvidia card: the GPU-accelerated ray-traced 3D renderer. Every other GPU feature in After Effects CS6 works on AMD cards."

And just for a little further clarification: the ray-traced 3D renderer also has a CPU-only mode which does not require any specific graphics card. This produces identical results to the GPU-accelerated mode, but it's significantly slower.

If you plan on doing a lot of ray-tracing in Ae, a qualified NVIDIA GPU is highly recommended.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Olllie Davis
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Oct 24, 2012 at 12:32:31 pm

Would a GTX 660 2gb really not work?


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Michael Garske
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 12, 2012 at 1:06:36 am

Ah, thanks for that information. Does anyone know if there is a significant difference between nvidia and AMD when it comes to GPU rendering? This website seems to favor the Radeon HD 7970 by quite a bit.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU12/406

Is anyone using this card? Would it make a good match for After Effects? (raytrace aside)


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Walter Soyka
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 12, 2012 at 1:38:34 am

Those benchmarks are for SmallLux GPU renderer only, which computes with OpenCL. They have nothing to do with the After Effects ray tracer, which computes with OptiX on CUDA.

Check out Juan Salvo and Danny Princz's AE/GPU benchmarks [link] (which Todd linked to earlier).

Please note these benchmarks are specific to CS6's new ray-tracing renderer. Some third-party effects like Sapphire may be CUDA enabled, but others like Optical Flares or Element 3D can also process on the GPU via OpenGL.

Normal 2D and Classic 3D rendering in After Effects is all on the CPU, and the GPU doesn't factor in at all.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Wall
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 12, 2012 at 8:25:51 am

I'm interested in perhaps buying the 4000, but isn't this card starting to get a little old?

Life is full of funny particles.


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David Pirinelli
Barefeats quantifies Ray Tracing via Mac OSX GPUs
on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:16:19 pm

http://www.barefeats.com/aecs6.html

He just added out GTX580 Classified 3GB and GTX570 2.5 GB.

The GTX570 is really the card to have in OSX right now. The GTX580 Classified is FASTEST Mac card ever, but it requires 2 @ 8 Pin and a 6 pin and once all of this power connected, it is hard to close case. Perfect for a chassis.

With GTX570, no added power needed, the case closes up and card shows full boot screens and runs at PCIE 2.0 full speed of 5.0 GT/s. (unflashed cards sourced from Newegg et al, don't do either of these things)

Note there is a simple math correlation. The Quadro 4000 costs nearly 3 times as much money, and it takes nearly 3 times as long to render.

Thanks again to Nvidia for writing solid OSX drivers.

GTX570 2.5 is the king.


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Michael Garske
Re: Barefeats quantifies Ray Tracing via Mac OSX GPUs
on Jul 16, 2012 at 9:40:34 pm

Hey David,
I'm curious about your post. Why are the 600 series not on your list? Do they not work with Mac OS or is there truth to some of the articles I've been reading about the 600 series reduced performance? Thanks for your post.


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Martin Eriksen
Re: Barefeats quantifies Ray Tracing via Mac OSX GPUs
on May 19, 2013 at 12:12:55 am

Wow, those Barefeats performance figures are just amazing.

I'd like to keep my Mac Pro 2008 a while longer, so I'm dying to get my hands on a flashed GTX 580, or 570 maybe. Can't really figure out if the performance gain is significant enough from one to the other, but I definitely need one of them for my GPU-based rendering..

But the sad part is that apparently I can't buy a card from you, because according to Macvidcards on ebay you don't ship to Denmark, which is where I live. What a bummer..:-( Is there any way I can get you to make an exception from that policy? Please...:-)

Thing is, I do need the boot screen for occasionally booting into Windows, and of course the best GPU/CPU transfer speed is a must as well, so... Anyway, sorry to post a request like this directly here in the forum, but I just couldn't find any other means to get in contact with you. Hope it's allright..

Cheers
Martin,
Denmark


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Spencer Tweed
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 1:25:55 am

Exactly what I'm thinking... Gotta make a good impression ;)

- Spencer


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Spencer Tweed
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 1:28:59 am

[Walter Soyka] "Remember, though, the graphics card only comes into play with Ae for the ray tracing renderer and select third-party effects. It will not accelerate classic 3D rendering or most of the built-in effects."

That's not totally true. Large portions of the GUI have been switched to GPU: http://success.adobe.com/assets/en/downloads/guides/AE_CS6_WN_Reveal.pdf section "New Graphics Pipeline."

- Spencer


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Walter Soyka
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 2:28:04 am

[Spencer Tweed] "Large portions of the GUI have been switched to GPU"

True -- many GUI elements are now OpenGL-accelerated. I'm not sure how big an impact your choice of card would have here, but I doubt it'd be as quantifiable as the render figures.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Todd Kopriva
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 4:27:56 pm

The PDF that you linked to doesn't have the details about the After Effects GPU features that this page does:
http://bit.ly/aftereffects_cs6_gpu

The acceleration of drawing items to the screen (as opposed to rendering) makes a huge difference---especially on large monitors---regarding smoothness of interaction with the application. This specific GPU acceleration feature is not at all demanding regarding system specs; nearly any somewhat recent card will provide this feature.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
product manager, professional video software
After Effects team blog
Premiere Pro team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Spencer Tweed
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 18, 2012 at 10:30:34 pm

Hey Todd,

Thanks for the article - didn't even know about the swap buffer! This really seems like a great update to AE (which is the point, I know!).

- Spencer


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Spencer Tweed
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 1:23:04 am

Hey Kevin,

That's great data, it makes a lot of sense - thanks!

- Spencer


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Michael Garske
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 6:25:42 pm

Thanks for all the useful information. Does anyone know of a reliable source for After Effects benchmarks with Quadro/GTX cards?

I've looked and looked but can not find a site with After Effects benchmarks. Everything for the most part revolves around gaming.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 6:32:14 pm

Here's a thread on the COW with some benchmark results:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/1019643

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
product manager, professional video software
After Effects team blog
Premiere Pro team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Michael Garske
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 6:57:01 pm

Thanks for that. It's unfortunate it looks like they are intentionally crippling the GTX series to mark up prices for production cards.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 7:03:36 pm

That's a strange thing to say after looking at a graph in which the GTX cards are performing better than other cards.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
product manager, professional video software
After Effects team blog
Premiere Pro team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Michael Garske
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Jul 17, 2012 at 8:22:32 pm

I'm just looking at the 600 series cards. Based on that and other sources I've seen the 680 performance is sub-par to the 580 despite its increased specs. Nvidia has said that they're "focusing on gaming" for that line of cards.


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antonio alucema
Re: CS6 GPU Question
on Nov 7, 2012 at 6:49:12 pm

I just upgraded my 64-bit windows 7 workstation from a Quadro FX 580 to a GTX 680 and im having some serious anti-aliasing issues in After Effects with things such as Trapcode MIR, and Element 3D... everything seems really jagged and almost no anti-aliasing at all. I've updated to CS6 11.0.1 and tried to change the 680's anti-aliasing settings but nothing seems to fix the issue... anyone else had this problem? any ideas?


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