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The color red drives me mad!!!

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andrew donaldsonThe color red drives me mad!!!
by on May 8, 2012 at 3:48:10 pm

Hello legendary Cow folks!

Ive had this beef for a while now (no cow related pun intended) about the color red. and black especially.
And Ive asked this here before and not really had an answer, so Im trying again...

Basically anytime i render something with 100% red it always looks horrible. The edges bleed together and black text on a red background looks pretty dreadful.
Ive pretty much tried to ignore it and dodge it but ive found myself working for a company whose logo is...Black text on a red BG. nightmare.

My specific problem here is rendering my animations to iPad. When i render out from AE i always render to Animation or PNG Quicktime, which look pretty good. But they are 500Mb for 10 secs. and I have tried to compress them in Compressor, Handbrake, Mpeg streamclip and even straight out of AE, but each time the black text on Red BG looks horrendous.
Ive been playing with color spaces and such, but it doesn't seem to be helping.
Is this a pretty obvous problem? Does anything with 100% either R, G or B look bad? Ive seen commercials on tv which have Black text on a Red BG that look horrible, but ive seen some that look great!

Surely someone here has had the same problem?

What makes the problem worse is that on the iPad the video holds on the last frame and the logo is very prominent. so it really has to look sharp. Which is doesn't.

Any help, thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Andrew.

PS i have tried 16bpc and 32bit with not much change.


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Nevin StyreRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on May 8, 2012 at 5:49:14 pm

Pure 100% red has always been bad for video, I would suggest trying to tone back the saturation & value on the red a bit while trying to maintain the original look as much as you can.


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Dave LaRondeRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on May 8, 2012 at 7:10:35 pm

Now, I do my work in broadcast so this may not apply to you, but here's a recipe for fixing pure 8-bit red, 255-0-0:

Make a pure red solid.
Apply the levels effect, and set the Output White to 234.
Apply the Hue/Saturation effect, and set the Red saturation to -12.
Place the cursor over the solid and observe the RGB values in the Info pane: that's pure red for broadcast.

In 8-bit, black is 16-16-16 and white is 234-234-234. Working in 16-bit? Multiply the values by 128.
I haven't worked out 32-bit.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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andrew donaldsonRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on May 9, 2012 at 8:23:59 am

Yeah, I used to work in broadcast and had problems then too. Which is when i do my classic swerve manouevre... "nah, you don't want pure red, what about trying something else..?"

It really seems like some sort of basic 101 of video that I seem to have skipped.

Nevin, i have tried to reduce the saturation on the red but it only starts to look good when it becomes properly pink! not a client pleaser.

I will give your suggestions a go Dave, Thanks alot.

Andrew.


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andrew donaldsonRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on May 9, 2012 at 11:51:40 am

Hi Dave,

That was a real nice tit bit of information that im gonna keep for sure.
But unfortunately this time it hasn't worked for me.

I mean, ive must have rendered hundereds of different methods and none of them has worked.
Im using a provided logo (both psd and Tiff formats), and have also tried to replicate it with text and color solids, but no better.

Can i presume that any black text on a red background just cannot look good when compressed to H264, or mp4? Is it impossible?
My Animation renders look fine, but even with a massive 25Mbps bitrate the black text looks soft on the red BG when compressed to H264/Mp4.


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Eugenia MattenetRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on Oct 16, 2015 at 2:26:31 pm

Hello,

It's been 3 days tryng to find out why the resolution after render to flv was so bad until I tryed another background, not red and it worked fine.
I 've tried what you wrote but do not undertand the las 2 sentences

.....In 8-bit, black is 16-16-16 and white is 234-234-234. Working in 16-bit? Multiply the values by 128.
I haven't worked out 32-bit.....


but with the first part didnt worked. I'm using CS6.

Has this problems been solved in latest AF version ?

I'll really apreciate if you can help me

Thanks in advanced

EM


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Dave LaRondeRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on Oct 16, 2015 at 5:18:36 pm

I don't understand your problem. My post only pertains to getting proper video levels and color saturation -- specifically the color red -- for people delivering animations to be used in broadcasting. Not the internet. Not Vimeo or YouTube. Broadcasting.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Eugenia MattenetRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on Oct 16, 2015 at 7:01:52 pm

I'm animating a cristmast card in after effects where I have a red background and vectorial elements animated. When I render them to FLV the resolutions is terrible, but when I replace the red background for another color or image is ok.


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Dave LaRondeRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on Oct 16, 2015 at 8:17:11 pm

Ah. Very simple: change the red! It will still look good if you do so. It can be done in a few places. You can use an effect like Hue-Saturation, Curves, Levels, Change Color, or Change To Color.

How much should you change the red? Until the noise goes away.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter SoykaRe: The color red drives me mad!!!
by on Oct 17, 2015 at 11:17:49 am

This is probably an artifact of your FLV compression.

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/1029263

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/1064388

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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