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5d mark footage

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alexandra yuoz
5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 3:22:55 pm

ok, well, I think I have a huuge mess in my mind and canĀ“t figure out how to solve the problem.
I read so many posts but still stuck here.

I have been shooting with a canon 5d mark II. fps of the MOV material 23.97

then I imported the material into after effects, and exported in pro res ( keeeping the same fps )each clip.
so, I edited with accordingn to a music aiff file, in final cut, and brought the whole xml with boris exchange back to after effects to overlay some motion graphic animations.
now I'm exporting the final version but, damn!!!! music and video are out of sync ( if compared with the final cut preview and/or previous export.
I guess that must be a fps issue, but can't figure out what changed between final cut and after effects. why was it on sync before and now it's not???


and, should be an issue the fact that me, Europe PAL dude, am exporting at 23.297 ?

totally confused, plz heeelp


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Walter Soyka
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 4:16:58 pm

The proper frame rate for NTSC-compatible 24p is 23.976.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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alexandra yuoz
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 4:41:43 pm

well I'm in Europe so ntsc doesn't fit. is it possible to convert to pal-friendly footage?

what I don't geet is: if I'm working at hd,why do I have this problem, even if I interpret the footage in ae as 25fps, and than use a composition preset hdtv 1080p 25fps?


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Walter Soyka
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 4:46:24 pm

[alexandra yuoz] "well I'm in Europe so ntsc doesn't fit. is it possible to convert to pal-friendly footage?"

You could interpret the footage as whatever frame rate you want. You could use treat it as 25 fps footage even if you recorded it at 23.976, but of course it would play a bit faster.


[alexandra yuoz] "what I don't geet is: if I'm working at hd,why do I have this problem, even if I interpret the footage in ae as 25fps, and than use a composition preset hdtv 1080p 25fps?"

You'll lose sync if you speed up the video but do not speed up its audio.

Can you run through your workflow again? I'm not sure I fully understand where all your sources are coming from and what you're doing to them.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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alexandra yuoz
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 5:03:36 pm

Sure:


*raw .MOV footage from canon 5dmarkII ---> exported as ProRes442
*editing in final cut together with a sound track (aiff). the singer in the videos is sometimes on lipsync. (and untill now, everything works fine. sync is ok,settings of the fc sequence are still at 23,97 fps)
*editing xml file to after effects through Borix xml export
*now I have the project in ae. I' overlaying some motion graphics. I'm changing now the interpretation of my footage ( that I can see in the project window of after effects ) to 25fps.
and I also change the ae composition framerate to 25fps

export( at 25fps obviously): everything is now out of sync...


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Walter Soyka
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 5:10:42 pm

Does the audio come in as a separate footage item? If so, you must timewarp or time-remap it to match the implicit speed change you're making in your other footage items.

Personally, I'd finish the AE work at 23.976 if that's what your footage is. You can conform it to 25fps with Cinema Tools, or by rendering at 23.976, reimporting the finished render, interpreting at 25 fps, and rendering that.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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alexandra yuoz
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 6:12:19 pm

yes, audio is separate footage file.its a music video, so I have a aiff file for the song and then video footage.

I don't have cinema tools installed . any other option for conforming? or I will wait untill tomorrow when I get my original software cds.

I will try to use your workflow, btw


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Michael Szalapski
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 6:54:11 pm

Your original post stated that you imported your RAW footage into AE and then exported it as ProRes from AE then imported that footage into Final Cut.
Is there a reason you used AE to do that? Does Final Cut not offer a way to ingest DSLR footage natively?

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Bill Davis
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 19, 2011 at 7:58:59 pm

alexandra,

You're concentrating on frame rate - which is good.

But also be mindful of the sampling rate of your original audio files.

Whether they are 44.1khz or 48khz (or even 32khz) won't bother FCP on initial import since it will re-sample on the fly to import as necessary - but when you're outputting those same files for ingest into AE or something else, sometimes you get links to the original sampled audio files and that can "lock-in sample rate conflicts.

I'd use QTPro or some other audio editor to lock your audio at a standard audio-for-video sample rate (typically 48khz) at the point of original audio ingest. Then maintain that so that none of your interim steps have to re-transcode your audio to anything else.

At least then your audio won't drift verses the video - and you can concentrate on getting the video to lock against consistent audio.

Just a suggestion.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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alexandra yuoz
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 20, 2011 at 9:09:08 am

well, first of all I'm an ae user more than fc...so rpobably feeling more confident with ae exporting settings

and second I read a lot before doing it and seemed to be a possible workflow....

I saw it as a way to have smoother editing without loosing quality


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Owen Wexler
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 20, 2011 at 1:21:58 pm

I'm guessing he is using Final Cut Pro 7 or an earlier version, in which you technically can edit H.264 files from a DSLR natively, but it is extremely slow and painful... think spinning beachballs every 10 seconds, not being able to scrub through smoothly, no frame accurate edits.... that is why everyone advises transcoding it before editing. Premiere Pro CS5 and up can handle it because of its advanced playback engine and 64-bit architecture, but FCP7 and below is still 32-bit and can't handle heavily compressed formats like H.264 and AVCHD as well.

Cinematographer - Editor - Motion Graphics Artist - Colorist

http://www.owenbwexler.com


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alexandra yuoz
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 20, 2011 at 1:26:31 pm

exactly!


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alexandra yuoz
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 20, 2011 at 1:34:02 pm

ok, now I have a HUGE doubt. does it make any sense speaking about fps 24 29.97 or whatever when displaying a video on a laptop ?


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Michael Szalapski
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 20, 2011 at 8:19:12 pm

The video has to be displayed at SOME frame rate, your job is to pick one.

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 21, 2011 at 5:44:27 am

[alexandra yuoz] "ok, now I have a HUGE doubt. does it make any sense speaking about fps 24 29.97 or whatever when displaying a video on a laptop ?"

[Michael Szalapski] "The video has to be displayed at SOME frame rate, your job is to pick one."

And if you pick any frame rate other than the native frame rate, you must either convert it (resulting in interpolated frames) or conform it (resulting in a speed change).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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alexandra yuoz
Re: 5d mark footage
on Oct 21, 2011 at 4:58:55 pm

ok just a general update:
I sticked to the suggestion of keeping working on the ae project on 23.98 fps and then conform the file that comes out of that.

well, All the problems I had INSIDE the ae project ( sync not working but working before in finalcut ), disappeared when I replaced the aiff with another exporting of the audio.

I guess it might have been a problem of audio bitrate (!? )


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