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Frame Rate conversion

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Geoffrey Weglarz
Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 12:22:18 pm

OK. I have a Canon HF S11. It has a preset for filming in a 60i, 24pf, or 30pf mode. The 24 and 30 are wrapped in 60i. Is the 29.97 interlaced via the 60i wrapper?When I import into After Effects it reads as 29.97. It plays back fine at 29.97 and when I interpet footage to conform to 23.976, it play fines, but blurry in a few frames, like maybe every fourth frame.

I have used Andrew Kramer's FPS converter, but the quality is also iffy as far as a lack of sharpness.

Cineform interpets the best, but am I going to run that for every mts file from my cameera? Also, if I shoot at the 30pf mode, will I have to do the same steps? I am thinking of shooting at 30fps to get higher video quality - I don't necessary need the film look, I need sharpness. This camera is used for underwater video.

Here is a link to the files: http://www.weglarz.com/Turtle/turtle.html (case sensitive)


Thanks for any help.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 2:09:40 pm

[Geoffrey Weglarz] "It has a preset for filming in a 60i, 24pf, or 30pf mode. The 24 and 30 are wrapped in 60i. Is the 29.97 interlaced via the 60i wrapper?"

29.97 interlaced is 60i.

As for the 24p, wrapped in 60i -- this is called pulldown [link].

To use your footage in AE at its native 23.976 fps, you must first remove the pulldown [link].

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Geoffrey Weglarz
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 4:09:35 pm

So, will the AE interpet footage "guess pulldown" work? Or is Cineform my best solution?


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Walter Soyka
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 4:48:35 pm

"Guess 3:2 pulldown" should work fine.

You should always remove pulldown BEFORE you edit, though -- otherwise you can split the cadence, and pulldown removal gets a lot harder.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Geoffrey Weglarz
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 7:08:02 pm

Thanks for your response.


Sorry to send like a neophite - I understand pulldown but I don't knoe what the AE Interpet footage means.

They have things for remove pulldown like:

http://WWWSS
SSWWW

etc.

as well as

http://WWWSW 24p advance
WWSWW 24p advance


When I choose guess pulldown, it guesses WSSWW. And says separating upper in the info panel. But, it still repeats a frame every 4 frames. Do I separate fieldes, or will the 29.97 24pF 60i record already have eliminated the interlaced (I know you said the 29.97 was interlaced, just checking to see if I need to change and use lower or lower)



If you could help with the AE function, I would appreciate it. The 6mb link to the footagage is: http://www.weglarz.com/Turtle/turtle.html - the one that says MTS. address is case sensitive.



Thanks,

Geoffrey


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Walter Soyka
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 7:44:39 pm

[Geoffrey Weglarz] "When I choose guess pulldown, it guesses WSSWW. And says separating upper in the info panel. But, it still repeats a frame every 4 frames. Do I separate fieldes, or will the 29.97 24pF 60i record already have eliminated the interlaced (I know you said the 29.97 was interlaced, just checking to see if I need to change and use lower or lower)"

How are you monitoring it to see that it's repeating a frame every 4 frames?

I downloaded your footage and imported it into a project. I selected it, then used Interpret Footage. I hit Guess 3:2 pulldown. I dragged the footage onto the New Comp button in the Project Panel (to create a new comp using the source footage). This comp is 23.976 fps and I see no repeated frames.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Geoffrey Weglarz
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 8:05:32 pm

I am using the page down key to step through the comp footage and see every fourth frame (I think it's the fourth) repeated.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 8:07:48 pm

[Geoffrey Weglarz] "I am using the page down key to step through the comp footage and see every fourth frame (I think it's the fourth) repeated."

Is the comp's frame rate 23.976 or 29.97 fps?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Geoffrey Weglarz
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 8:12:19 pm

I see what I may have been doing wrong. I was seting the target frame rate to 23.976. When I left it as is, and used the guess pull down, it loaded as 23.976 and the comp created was 23.976 as well. So that may solve my problem.

But, what if I wasnted to convert to 30fps? If I shot at the 30pf mode on the camera. I'll try this with some footage tomomorrow and see if the guess will result in 30frps.


Thanks for you help.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Frame Rate conversion
on Jul 29, 2011 at 8:24:57 pm

[Geoffrey Weglarz] "I see what I may have been doing wrong. I was seting the target frame rate to 23.976. When I left it as is, and used the guess pull down, it loaded as 23.976 and the comp created was 23.976 as well. So that may solve my problem."

Excellent!


[Geoffrey Weglarz] "But, what if I wasnted to convert to 30fps? If I shot at the 30pf mode on the camera. I'll try this with some footage tomomorrow and see if the guess will result in 30frps."

You should be able to use the 30p footage as-is. Just drop it onto the New Comp button to create a comp from the footage.


[Geoffrey Weglarz] "Thanks for you help."

You're welcome.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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